1771 Giii Counterstamp 8R - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 7 / Views: 1,611
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 03/24/2014 4:39 pm I will check our database tonight of 1771 CC's for a GNL number if it exists. That weight is real low. We did a weight study on a few dozen extememly worn regal 8Rs. If it weighs less than 1.0 gram off the regal standard weight say roughly of 26.5 g or say <25.2 grams this is almost a STRONG indicator for a counterfeit. In other words even a high circ example in G-4 SHOULD weigh > 25.2 grams from our weight study of worn regals. Not sure when they started countermarking these regal issues - will check tonight unless I see Bob has reviewed the piece. Either way this type of ANS/GNL countermark if a CC is highly prized say >$150.00 even today when nobody really knows anything about GIII countermarke Portrait CCs - although this is changing FAST even without this book - tough date and countermark. If you own it - don't sell obviously till after the ANS/GNL book comes out in early 2015. Currently in publication at the ANS in New York. At work - will respond in several hours TODAY. Most of these issues are Sheffields (silver-plated issues) - it appears its plated - in the rubbed high points - do you SUSPECT an underlayer? Examine the edge areas for PEELED OFF silver plating BREAKS. Any? John Lorenzo ANS/GNL Book Co-Author Edited by colonialjohn 03/24/2014 4:43 pm Report this Post to the Staff

Jeff 11 Valued Member United Kingdom 497 Posts	Posted 03/24/2014 5:56 pm Thanks so much for the quick response. Just to clarify, the coin is in hand, and I do own it. I've had a couple of Sheffield plate examples before, one that had near completely lost its silver plating, and one which had a fairly usual appearance with upper patches worn to show the underlayer. I'm taking a much closer look now, but so far I can't see any sign of an under layer, peeling silver plating etc. There is a fairly deep gauge on the right edge of the obverse which did not show an undertype so far as I could tell. I'll get some high resolution pics posted of that area on this thread shortly. Also i'll double check the weight ASAP as I have a suspicion my scales might be a bit off - but even if they are, i'd still think it will be significantly underweight. www.kingstoncoincompany.co.uk Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 03/24/2014 7:19 pm CONFIRMED. Its a Sheffield (silver plated). Its listed in our upcoming book. Its variety: GNL 1771-O:Aa/R:MoFM-001. This reads actually the first (A) obverse for 1771 with the first reverse of Mexico City and the FM assayer. Interestingly - this is the only countermark variety for the entire year of 1771 as a Sheffield - in other words 1771 has only one countermark forgery - this variety. Currently yours is the fifth? recorded variety - Two in the Gord Nichols Collection (co-author), Gurney Collection and my collection - purchased one from Gurney who has THREE! Wait for the book or put a reserve of $150 and cite the variety. Contact the American Numismatic Society in New York for further details of the book say this December 2014. Best, John Lorenzo United States Report this Post to the Staff
Jeff 11 Valued Member United Kingdom 497 Posts	Posted 03/24/2014 8:06 pm Thanks very much for your reply - I didn't expect to get such a full and complete answer so quickly. I may well offer it for sale next week - as suggested i'll start it at $150 and see how it goes - i'll reference your information in the sale if that is OK. If it would be of interest to you what it sells for, I can drop you a message if you would like. I'll get in touch with the ANA later in the year nearer publication, with any luck they can ship to the UK for a reasonable sum. I have come across a number of these over time and no doubt the reference book will be an excellent resource. Again, many Thanks Jeff Dann www.kingstoncoincompany.co.uk Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 03/24/2014 8:43 pm OK. I may bid on it ... seriously. American Numismatic Society (ANS) in New York City not the American Numismatic Association in Colorodo Springs, Co. is publishing the book ... ANS not the ANA. Its really a book that goes into many aspects of counterfeiting of the Reales ... its levels ABOVE being just another attribution book. We designed it to be different ... well check out the Table Of Contents before your decision ... <BG>. There are many Sheffields in Third Party Holders ... so BE CAREFUL. There so well made by the Tower Mint as you indicated ... Report this Post to the Staff
realeswatcher Pillar of the Community United States 1962 Posts	Posted 03/25/2014 03:05 am Original post w/pics, for reference: https://goccf.com/t/173398 Report this Post to the Staff
Jeff 11 Valued Member United Kingdom 497 Posts	Posted 03/28/2014 07:25 am John - if you want to just buy it outright, message me and I'm sure we can work something out. Might be interesting to see what it gets at an auction with all the information. At the moment it is scheduled to go on ebay Sunday evening - i'll place a link to this thread when it goes on so the selling price can be put with the thread. Thanks for pointing out the ANS not ANA - i'll look forward to seeing the book www.kingstoncoincompany.co.uk Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 03/28/2014 07:54 am My collection is big enough ... one recently sold for $110 ... maybe $150 is too aggressive ... put a $100 reserve on E-Bay. Post to U.S. Colonials minimally. Since you are UK you can use the term "Contemporary Counterfeit." In the U.S. we can not use these terms on E-Bay. They KNOW ME and allow non-regal. However E-Mail me the ebay Lot# when posted. See my ebay listings now ... with the term non-regal. Pushing the envelope a bit with the Spanish term FALSA ... so far so good ... the backup SEM/EDS and XRF assays HELP ... ebay has written ... they actually LIKE ME <VVBG>. Check out this really KOOL piece with a rarely seen post-mint (X) cancellation mark. NICE! But not to a PCGS Collector of MS 67 coins ... <VVBG>. See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPANISH-MEX...191085878060 JPL Edited by colonialjohn 03/28/2014 08:02 am Report this Post to the Staff
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