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 Replies: 17 / Views: 1,839 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
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Valued Member
Netherlands
309 Posts |
Hello ND, nice coin, if you want to swap it, I can offer a half Gulden for it ;-)
Greetings, Carl
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
Nice coin. Looks like it may have been cleaned long ago or is that PVC on the reverse? I'd grade it VF20 with the amount of detail remaining, but the patina has a strange look to it that might just be due to the lighting.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Im with Susan !! there is something different about the patina of the coin, I also think there is something interesting with the MM location, kinda high and tight,, VF-20 is about right for grade. Rick PS. came close to my want list!!! 1857-O  Edited by Metalman
07/21/2005 12:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
980 Posts |
Nothing ventured, nothing gained-is it a cast fake? THat would be odd as it is a ommon date mm, but there are increaing numbers of counterfeit 19th century US coins, some of which while seeming to not 'make sense" in that other coins bring far more money, being common don't attract the attention when raw that another might. regardless, the surface is irregular and pitted throughout both the field and liberty's surface. There may be a cast line visible on the lower obverse rim below the date. There is a ridge extending up and to the left of liberty's shield which may be from a die crack On the reverse there are areas like original mint luster underneath the eagles wings, which don't seem consistent with the wear and age of the coin. The denticles at about 11 o'clock look funny too. OK I'm going to feel really dumb soon, I fear- Susan is great at sighting cast fakes, and she hasn't batted an eye... Don |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Don
Actually that was my first inclination also, but all of the details seem to be in the right places , and also the fact of it being one of the less expensive year MM of this series and a lower grade, I held my tongue, but you may very well be right.
Rick
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
Don, that was my first feeling but didn't go with it for the reasons Rick mentioned. The question about the patina was intended to leave that possiblity open. So, tell us about it ND...  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2724 Posts |
Actually the mintmark is indeed in the correct position for the date, probably a reverse of 1853 or 1854, but alas, this coin is a counterfeit. All of the details are correct, it is silver, but not 90%. The weight is off a bit. The coin should weigh 12.44 grams, and this one tops the scales at 8 grams. The edge is reeded, and shows NO signs of being a cast copy. My personal feeling is that this is a contemporary counterfeit. On a quick pass, this would easily have been accepted as legal tender. In a nice Airtite, it would still fool many today.
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
Good call, Don! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
A good call indeed. You have to take into consideration that most counterfeits are created for commerce. It only has to be close to fool most. Just think of what 50 cents would purchase in the mid 1800's.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
980 Posts |
Can anyone tell me about the "luster" on the reverse under the eagle's wings? Is that denticle at 11 o'clock a marker? How was it likely made? Is that surface pitting a tipoff? Unfortunately part of my fake call was based one the fact that this isn't the type of coin ND usually posts, so my "coindar" was beeping full alert  I'm not good at coins, but sometimes I "know" people... Don |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
The denticle just has a hit on it. There are NO SIGNS of casting at all. This coin was created using a real coin to make a transfer die. The wear patterns are consistent with circulation. As I was sorting through many Seated halves, the weight jumped out at me. I threw it on the trusty scale, and low and behold, it is off 4 grams. The "ring" tells me that it is silver, and I performed gravity weight tests after aquiring the coin. It is probably close to 20 or 25% silver. The luster is actually good die preperation, although it should not be this present on a coin of this grade. The coin when minted was probably a strong XF or AU transfer. However, I do on rare occasions post circ coins of limited value. It isn't all about the high dollars Okay, these two fakes were part of a 6 figure collection, but that is beside the point. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
Great call Don. When are you going to stop beating youself up about your supposed lack of knowledge? We'll take care of that when you make a mistake!LOL Mike  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
Download Attachment:  Half Dollar Fake 011.jpg55.77 KB Many of these marks can be attributed to the original coin used to create the die. A very neat study coin.
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Replies: 17 / Views: 1,839 |
Posted 07/21/2005 10:48 am
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