Opinions On This Silver Mexican 1842 Pi 8R Coin?

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Author	Replies: 7 / Views: 3,192
samboyellowsub Valued Member United States 113 Posts	Posted 05/09/2014 1:26 pm I Recently purchased this 8R coin and was concerned about whether it was genuine. To preface this, I don't know a whole lot about these early Mexican coins. The coin weighs 26.76 grams. Through a little bit of research, I found that the dies for these coins were not standardized across the different mints until the 1860's. That being said, the specific points of concern are on the obverse. The cap and it's lettering of Libertad and the arrangement of the rays behind the cap are known variations of those features on their own from what I can tell. However I can't find a known example of a combination of these features like this coin has. The diameter is a little less than that of the later 1800's 8R coins (more like a US dollar) and it's not quite round. Should I be concerned? Edited by samboyellowsub 05/09/2014 8:55 pm Report this Post to the Staff

Numismat Pillar of the Community United States 1666 Posts	Posted 05/09/2014 10:13 pm There is something really funky going on with the eagle's leg that is clutching the snake. Report this Post to the Staff
jfransch Pillar of the Community United States 1801 Posts	Posted 05/10/2014 12:29 am The shape of the date does not seem correct to me.I would be concerned about that coin even if it is the correct weight. Report this Post to the Staff
realeswatcher Pillar of the Community United States 1962 Posts	Posted 05/10/2014 05:12 am The slightly out-of-round shape is very typical for Potosi mint pieces of this timeframe... I'm seeing similar misaligned dates looking at other 1842 Pi 8R... design elements look OK, defined flowlines seem correct. I say legit. "Something really funky" with the eagle's leg... looks to be the typical flat center. Usually more obvious on the observe (on the cap) on Potosi pieces I've seen (where LIBERTAD can be nearly non-existent even on high-grade pieces), but it can certainly manifest itself on the eagle also. Report this Post to the Staff
Lucky Cuss Pillar of the Community United States 4883 Posts	Posted 05/10/2014 11:15 am The shape of the "8" in the date is spot on. On the other hand, the "1" in both the date and the "10" is notably undersized, and the "4" looks as if it was made up from what was originally a "1". However, San Luis Potosi mint's output in this period was of uneven quality, with expedients in production galore. For example, they were supposedly at this time the only branch mint that was actually [i]casting['i] flans owing to a lack of proper machinery to roll the material and then punch them out. The eagle's claw where it's grasping the snake is the highest point on that side of the coin, and typically is a focal point for showing flattening first, and the most as wear accumulates. That said, the whole body of the eagle looks excessively worn relative to the rest of the coin. But this could be the result of just a terrible strike to begin with. This coin is a hard call overall. There's a documented contemporary counterfeit of the 1843 Pi that's correct in weight, but is debased nonetheless. So determining the specific gravity of your specimen would be enlightening. Colligo ergo sum Edited by Lucky Cuss 05/10/2014 11:16 am Report this Post to the Staff
samboyellowsub Valued Member United States 113 Posts	Posted 05/10/2014 9:12 pm Well, thanks for chiming in folks. I'm glad you did. I had not thought of that - to test the SG. I will do that and compare and report back. Report this Post to the Staff
samboyellowsub Valued Member United States 113 Posts	Posted 05/10/2014 9:43 pm I did a quick test with 3 other 8R. This might not be totally accurate to the true SG of .903 silver but I'm confident in the precision of the test for the sake of comparison to other good coins. 1842Pi 10.21 1863Z 10.21 1890Go 10.23 1896Mo 10.20 It's at least the right silver content. The only thing left to question is whether or not it was a forgery made with stolen dies which I heard happened. What makes me doubt that though is it's likeness to other coins. I mean, why use silver to forge coins? Report this Post to the Staff
samboyellowsub Valued Member United States 113 Posts	Posted 05/12/2014 11:28 am Has anyone else gotten similar results with 1800's Mexican 8R coins? Report this Post to the Staff
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