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Is This Called A DDR?

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Pillar of the Community
DrDon's Avatar
United States
2624 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2014  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DrDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MD. Flat and shelf like.
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Agrippa's Avatar
United States
663 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2014  02:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Agrippa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since seeing this pos, I've been pulling out all 2011-D's and I have found a couple with MD too. What's interesting is, it seems like the ones that have the date, MM, and/or "Liberty" doubled are the ones that end up having "LLO" and "NTS" doubled on the reverse. Why would that be?
Valued Member
United States
167 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2014  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ghostrivertrading to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found one with the date and Liberty MD but it looks real close to a DDO also. Something must have been up in 2011. I'm holding on to mine also.
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2014  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Machine Doubling is caused by a normal die that has some machine/die movement during the strike. After an adjustment to the machine, the coins look normal again. The movement damages the devices. Often reducing the normal size of the devices. Here are a few examples:
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...VICES_01.jpg
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...VICES_02.jpg
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...VICES_03.jpg
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...VICES_04.jpg
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...VICES_05.jpg
Note how the devices are reduced from normal size, looking flat and shelf looking?
Here is a side by side of machine damaged/normal/hub doubled:
Is-This-Called-A-DDR?
Hub doubling creates (Most of the time) a doubled image, wider/taller:
Is-This-Called-A-DDR?
Compared with a normal coin in a side by side you can see see how much the hub doubling is showing a spread:
Is-This-Called-A-DDR?

To wrap it up, A normal die can create machine damage, just as a hub doubled die can created a machine damaged doubled die. So Machine Doubling is common and often not the same from strike to strike:
Is-This-Called-A-DDR?

Machine damage is common and to me, doesn't warrant any premium. Some may find it interesting until through a couple of years note that is is common to find in circulated/BU/Proof coins. Here is an image that Charles Daughtrey created to help show the difference:
Is-This-Called-A-DDR?
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Agrippa's Avatar
United States
663 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2014  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Agrippa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those pictures were VERY helpful Coop! The picture of the six MD coins is interesting! If I understand the minting process correctly, I could understand how a loose die could create the doubled image and how since it is loose, the image could be different from coin to coin. The die wiggles around and therefore can strike the coin differently from strike to strike right? with the 2011D nickel in this post, are you saying that both the obverse and reverse dies are loose? Is that how we get MD on both sides of the coin?
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coop's Avatar
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62064 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2014  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Movement from either die or both could make that happen. But the hammer die is the adjustable one and the anvil die is stationary. So I'm thinking it is mostly one die loose and the planchet is what suffers the movement and it probably the hammer die.
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Rackster's Avatar
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4809 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2014  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rackster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since Cindy's post, I've seen 2 or 3 2011Ds with MD nearly as significant as the one posted here. Quite common I suppose.
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2014  01:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I always save things that are questionable. I found a 2006-D That looked interesting:
Is-This-Called-A-DDR?
It was deemed as not a variety. But I still have about a roll of these. They were easy to pick out of rolls. They looked like proof coins in color/shine. I know they are not proof coins, but they stood out in the OBW rolls.
Valued Member
United States
167 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2014  07:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ghostrivertrading to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Far Out! This is the best lesson yet on doubling! Great Pictures, Thanks Coop!
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2014  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I can now added more information on doubled dies as I prepared another couple of images.

Here is a cut away illustration of a normal die and coin:
Is-This-Called-A-DDR?
Note the uniform design that transfers from the die to the coin?

Here is a die that has received a hubbing not over the first exact spot on the die. This creates coins with the same variety each time.
Is-This-Called-A-DDR?
On this one you can see a set of two devices with a notch (spread) between the two hubbing. All coins struck with this die will show this.
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Agrippa's Avatar
United States
663 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2014  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Agrippa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These are GREAT illustrations Coop! Thanks for taking the time to make and post these!

What I don't understand is how a die gets made and used with an error on it? I can see a small embellishment here or there in the replicating process from the master die, but wouldn't a die that is far off as the 1955 example you show above be caught during either the die making process or in the regular maintenance that occurs on the dies? It seems to me something so extreme would be obvious and pulled from use or never used in the first place.
Edited by Agrippa
06/03/2014 2:29 pm
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2014  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So you might start a new topic about die creation. That way the subject will be covered in a thread with that name. I've got a few photos that I haven't posted yet on that subject.
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rupester's Avatar
United States
1300 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2014  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rupester to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DDO-DDR-101! Schools in session! In the Cherry Pickers Guide there is a entire chapter dedicated to this very subject. It tormented me for quite a while until the day. I actually found one. Now its few and far between I find a half dollar or quarter I cant tell the difference on. For me its all about the cents and dimes.. My eyes cannot find them. Fortunately I have saved alot of examples for future examination. Cents in particular have so many rpm DDO DDR, its just a very difficult denomintaion for me I have acquired some neat coins in the half dollar and .25cents denominations. Nickels dimes and cents, just outside my scope for now.. These threads like this one amazing and great information. Thanks to all the experts who help out!! CCF is the best
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