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Multiple Compounded Error Threepence.

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Pillar of the Community

Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2014  8:18 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Received a spectacular error threepence last week.Australian ebay item 161301382273. It is a genuine error.
I have only ever seen one other example of this, coincidently a threepence also recently on ebay,so I presume that they are rare.
My threepence is distorted and has marks that may have happened either as part of the error process or by a mint technician prying the jammed coin out. Would those marks cause PCGS to bodybag the coin as they are not PMD but might be mistaken for PMD?
Edited by nealeffendi
06/13/2014 8:21 pm
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shanew's Avatar
Australia
1041 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2014  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shanew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nice coin it is not PMD it is so much like the one in this thread https://goccf.com/t/178422 and I guess that will be a price guide for my coin would that be the case boys good score nealeffendi
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CoinCollector2000's Avatar
United States
2563 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2014  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You just got scammed in my opinion. This is what is referred to as a vise job, where two coins are put together and hammered, which would cause the marks. But hey, I could be wrong.
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2014  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tend to worry when I see "Mirror Image" impressions on coins
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BobAlmighty125's Avatar
United States
199 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2014  11:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BobAlmighty125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
that looks a lot like all of the other vise jobs I've seen
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2014  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While I'm not exactly sure how that happened I'm fairly certain it's not man made. My three theories so far (in increasing order of likelihood) are a detached peel, or struck against a flipped over elliptical clip, or struck against a flipped over off-center strike. If it was man made they didn't do it in a vice.

Will be interested to hear what it weighs when you get it Neil.
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shanew's Avatar
Australia
1041 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2014  11:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shanew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
after looking at my one and your one neal
I am with markn its not a shed job impossible too do in a vice like a split planchet this has lifted of when the die has retracted and I think the next coin would have been a ripper as the die come down it would of left the piece imbedded in the next coin (just my opinion)
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spg1's Avatar
Australia
363 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2014  01:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spg1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When I saw this on ebay I thought it was a "vice" job (after reading many of these type threads). Also the imprint of the rim looked a bit wonky & not an even part circle I so guessed that someone had cut the coin to get it at the top.
I hope it is genuine though.
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shanew's Avatar
Australia
1041 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2014  02:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shanew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
neal I don't think you have a worry . I sell is also a good bloke I have dealed with him before
very good seller and has a great deal of error mostly mint sport
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appleangel07's Avatar
Australia
1607 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2014  03:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add appleangel07 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't know how the error happened but there's no way someone could do that in a shed.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2014  04:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The fact that this coin has sustained some damage on the reverse side, and more noticeably at the rims, DOES leave some element of doubt that it it is possible that it MAY NOT be a partial brokage, but a workshop job.

These could be easier to produce in smaller flan sizes. Less striking force would be needed.

I must admit, I am not quite sure about this one, until I do some experimentation for myself, to prove it or not. It should be quite easy to prove.
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appleangel07's Avatar
Australia
1607 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2014  10:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add appleangel07 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is what a shed job looks like !

151324942128
Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2014  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin is not a shed job. The same error is also found in ebay item 151058696357. The brokage is incuse so it isn't a lamination peel and I reckon I know how to spot shed jobs.
The only thing I can see that would cause this is if it was a full brokage that got stuck and remained in place after the other coin causing the incuse wheat stalks was dislodged. Because it was stuck the next blank could only get part way in and the striking of the dies jammed it to the coin. The flat face of the blank protected the brokage under it but the rest of the brokage was completely erased by repeated strikes. The obverse and reverse are extremely well struck up as would be expected from multiple strikes.
Eventually the stuck coins got out from between the dies and ended up in circulation. Any flaws with this theory?
Edited by nealeffendi
06/14/2014 12:03 pm
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shanew's Avatar
Australia
1041 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2014  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shanew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nealeffendi do you have it yet . I don't think you have a worry mate about that one what does it weigh
THIS SITE IS VERY GOOD error-ref.com
Edited by shanew
06/15/2014 5:45 pm
Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2014  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Shane
The threepence weighs 1.40g (spot on), a closer examination shows a perfect registration between the incuse wheat stalks and the reverse. The reverse denticles between 10 and 2 are more strongly struck and there is a small and perfectly formed high lip.
On the obverse the rim is perfectly formed between 10 and 2 but no sign of denticles.
The indent is well below the rest of the obverse and there is no distortion to the perfectly formed incused brokage.
So I've rejected my initial theory and I think it was an elliptical clip fragment that got stuck in the obverse die, was impressed with the reverse die and then impressed that as a partial brokage on this coin. I think that scenario also applies to your error coin Shane.
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shanew's Avatar
Australia
1041 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2014  01:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shanew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SO I WAS RIGHT with my guess just what is said but you spelt all your right
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