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Is Anda Holding Back Australian Numismatics?

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oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2014  06:08 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hey everyone
Thought about this when in the Rare Coin Company thread. This thread is about ANDA specifically whether or not you think ANDA is holding back Australian Numismatics? I will contribute my part later to try and keep things impartial here.

Otherwise looking forward to people's responses on this topic.
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2014  11:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see how ANDA can be relevant to us collectors.
I have no idea what services or benefits it gives dealers.
Most dealers proclaim themselves as being "ANDA Members": there's nothing rare, or special, or significant about it - so their status does nothing to help me make any choices.
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Basil's Avatar
Australia
1040 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2014  8:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Basil to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah,life's a jungle,same as a car dealer having a Licence,some are genuine and try to do the right thing,others are shonky who try every trick in the book when $ are involved.
My pet beef is the 1925 Penny Mintage,somehow its blended into the 1926(or 24 or both)but somehow the facts were buried by most pro. dealers as we headed to Decimal currency.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2014  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My prime peeve with ANDA is that they do not require member dealers to reveal any detracting points about their products,especially about cleaned/dipped coins. They quote the catalogue figures for a grade of the coin they are selling but the figure they are quoting is for a problem free coin. Any coin that the slabbers reject is worth only a fraction of the quoted figure,I've read that in the US the value is about 30%, we are not there yet but we are heading that way. With that failure it makes every other claim the dealer makes as dishonest (such as claiming a coin is a great investment or that the coin is among the finest known for that date).
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MobOfRoos's Avatar
Australia
762 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2014  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MobOfRoos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
whether or not you think ANDA is holding back Australian Numismatics?


"holding back" is a bit of a vague phrase and I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that.

To start ANDA stands for Australasian Numismatic DEALER's Association. There is a clue in the name. ANDA represents the dealers. I think that is something that hobby collectors (like myself) need to remember.

Dealers that I have learnt to trust generally end up being ANDA dealers. But that doesn't mean all ANDA dealers are trust worthy.

Thats why part of the fun of the hobby is educating yourself because nothing is 100% reliable, not even certified coins.
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oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2014  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nealeffendi they actually do require that it be disclosed if a coin has been cleaned. This excerpt comes right from ANDA's purpose statement.

7.Promote the interchange of information relating to forged, faked, repaired or otherwise unsatisfactory items and take action believed appropriate, including legal proceedings, to prevent or reduce the issuing, making or distribution of such items.

Straight from the Code of Ethics

I will avoid misrepresentation and misleading advertising.
AND
I will refrain from dealing in stolen and counterfeit material and give buyers of repaired or altered
material a complete written statement showing in detail the nature of the changes and alterations in
such material upon request.

MobofRoos It was meant to be a bit vague to open up the question for discussion and interpretation by the members here tho to be a bit more specific is ANDA benefiting or detracting from Australian Numismatics progress and/or engagement with potential collectors.
Edited by oh my florin
08/16/2014 10:25 pm
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2014  10:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A small core of coin dealers got together and with the best of intentions, decided that there sould be a set of high ethical standards that each member would endeavour to adhere to.

There is a group amongst these dealers who do their best to hold at least one major coin fair in each of the largest Capitals in Australia.

There needs to be some advantage perceived by a coin dealer, to become a member of this gouping.

The result is that it is mainly a grouping of coin dealers acting in their own best interests.
If a coin collector or investor can see some advantage in going to a major ANDA coin fair then hopefully, so much the better for everyone.
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2014  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I often buy coins and numismatic supplies from a B&T dealer that isn't a ANDA member and the service, Ethics , Quality and honesty from this particular dealer is what many members of ANDA should aspire to
I have also bought many coins off ANDA dealers without any problems But I don't consider that simply being a member of ANDA Makes any dealer reliable and honest, It's the way they conduct their business that decides that criteria
There may be a minority of ANDA members that May have discouraged some potential collectors and that is a bad thing.
But the majority of them know that to get regular and return customers they have to operate their business at a professional and honest manner, IMHO they do precisely this .
There are also Many ANDA members that actively participate and support many avenues of collector education, Not only via coin shows but via Websites and coin blogs.

So to answer your question.
NO I don't think ANDA as a whole is detrimental to Numismatics in Australia.
There may be a few rotten eggs in there but as a whole they promote the hobby and do a good job of it.
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oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2014  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Trout I think you may have misunderstood where I was coming from on my question. This thread isn't aimed at what individual dealers are doing some do great things as you said and others do bad things too. The main point of it is the effectivity of ANDA in conducting what it is supposed to do and how the results of this process uphold the purpose of ANDA and/or how this process is abused by unethical dealers to maintain their unethical business practices and to hush up certain unsavoury situations at the expense of the wider numismatic community. The ANDA dealers for the most part are great dealers however there are dealers who have had a founding interest in ANDA and who have used and abused the process but it seems like ANDA either can't or will not discipline these dealers.

I agree that many dealers do participate and support numismatics and I congratulate those dealers on their education of the numismatic community and they are absolutely fantastic dealers. Tho there are those who attempt to withhold information from the numismatic community or even use their position to diseminate completely false information to benefit their business interests at the expense of the collector e.g. the dealers spreading falsities about PCGS or TPG grading in general.

Main point of the topic is how ANDA promotes benefits for numismatics while minimising detriments as a separate organisation as opposed to how individual dealers do.
Edited by oh my florin
08/16/2014 11:44 pm
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2014  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Main point of the topic is how ANDA promotes benefits for numismatics while minimising detriments as a separate organisation as opposed to how individual dealers do.

So what you are basically asking is "Does ANDA nave any Teeth"?.
MAYBE, I don't exactly Know.
IS ANDA Proactive in ensuring that ALL Members adhere to the rules and the spirit of the organisation?
Not from what I and many other collectors can see.
This is probably why most of us now don't give the "ANDA" banner much credence and use word of mouth of personal experience to choose which dealer we deal with.

As far as the ANDA Shows go , I tend to think of them as a market where dealers can sell and showcase their wares.
If you are NOT an ANDA member you can't participate in these and that IMHO is why may members join and NOT Primarily to get involved or to uphold the rules or to adhere to them.
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oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2014  05:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah that is right on what I am trying to say such as is ANDA willing to step up when needed to maintain the integrity of the hobby. Personally my opinion of ANDA would increase significantly if they were willing to make the hard decisions to improve numismatics (could anyone confirm if ANDA has ever taken disciplinary action against a unethical dealer? (Really would love to hear that ANDA is willing and able to do what needs to be done), I mean at least one has to be bordering on a criminal charge and if a criminal charge comes before disciplinary action by ANDA then there has got to be something very wrong with how it conducts its affairs)
Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2014  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OMF
The Code doesn't specifically refer to dipping or cleaning and as any good lawyer will tell you that leaves them lots of wriggle room.
Is it misleading to fail to mention cleaning and dipping? because I regularly see cleaned/dipped coins sold by ANDA members without that dislcosure.
If the average potential customer cannot trust that the coin is buying is problem free from an ANDA member then that harms the hobby
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