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 Replies: 11 / Views: 2,169 |
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Valued Member
United States
446 Posts |
I got to thinking about some of the decisions made at the Mint director level and found myself disagreeing with some of the decisions that they had made regarding our circulating coinage. One. The decision to strike mintmark-less cents at the San Francisco Mint after 1974. I was living in San Jose and saw lots of S cents in my change, so it wasn't like people were hoarding them. Then in 1978 a lot of "plain" cents started showing up, and this continued through 1982. We saw a LOT of "plain" 1982 cents. I was a cashier in those days. I learned later on that these were minted at San Francisco. So why couldn't they have struck these as "S" cents? Seems as if the Mint likes to blame coin collectors for their inability to meet demand, yet it's not like we're hoarding all of the "S" cents, and furthermore, the general public really doesn't care about "S" cents. I realize that they experienced hoarding of silver coins in the sixties; that's a different situation because the general public will follow Gresham's Law (bad money drives out good money). Two. In a similar vein, why couldn't they have placed the W mintmark on cents struck at West Point? I realize West Point is a smaller facility, as that I've driven by it (and I've visited the Philly mint), but still, would Joe and Jane Public really hoard all of the W cents out of circulation? Sure, some collectors might hoard them, but do we really make up a significant percentage of the population to have the effect of creating cent shortages? Three. The San Francisco Mint is now striking clad NIFC ATB Quarters. That's good, I welcome that, but, why can't they strike these for circulation? In the preceding paragraphs it's like the Mint doesn't like the idea of collectors taking money out of circulation, yet with the States and ATB Quarters it's as if the Mint is encouraging the public to do so. Since they're giving us a lot to collect (some say almost too much to collect), then why not strike S quarters for circulation? Or S coins for other denominations? They struck SBA dollars with the S mintmark....how many of those were hoarded? Anyway.....these are some of my thoughts. I'm wondering if other collectors feel the same way, or have a different set of druthers than I do. Edited by DCM Coins
08/17/2014 11:09 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1158 Posts |
Personally, I like that S mint marks are only on proof coins now. It makes it easier to tell what's what.
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Moderator
 United States
187862 Posts |
1) Mintage would have been very low, making them a target for hoarders/collectors. 2) Mintage would have been very low, making them a target for hoarders/collectors. Basically, both times the mintage was supplemental, a very small percentage of the Philadelphia total. 3) I do not know, but when you find out, let me know.  |
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Moderator
Australia
16809 Posts |
The mint doesn't want you to hoard cents, because they make them at a loss. Each one hoarded by collectors is one more they have to replace for the coin-using public, at a loss. I realize this was probably not the case at the times in question for the two coinage issues, but it certainly is the case now.
The mint still makes a profit making quarters. You are encouraged to hoard as many of these as you please, because each one hoarded by collectors is one more the mint has to replace, at a small profit to them. But this profit only applies to the massively scaled-up workforce at Philly and Denver. Operating a tiny "boutique" mint only capable of making tiny mintages would drastically reduce the profitability of those coins. I would have assumed they no longer have high-speed circulation presses available for use in San Fransisco, only the low-speed high-pressure proof presses.
Finally, there's distribution equality. The original point of the San Fransisco mint was to save money on shipping finished coinage across the country by producing it locally. Whether or not S-marked coins ever made it east was irrelevant, because the "customers" - the non-collecting coin-using public - didn't care. But if tiny mintages of specially mintmarked coins are to be issued into circulation just for collectors to find and hoard up, then the "customers" - the coin collectors - would care a great deal about an "unfair" distribution system. Why should Northern Californian collectors enjoy finding coins no-one else could possibly have a hope of finding? You'd probably need to set up some kind of randomized distribution system so they get sent to different places across the country to be found - a roll here, a box there, that sort of thing.
So you'd have coins that cost money to make and cost even more money to fairly distribute, all for the benefit of a small, statistically wealtheir-than-average minority of the population. Which politicians are going to vote for that?
In short, you're far more likely to see a brand new multimillion-dollar Philly-sized or Denver-sized branch mint open up somewhere in California than see the old outdated San Fransisco Mint facility produce circulation coinage again.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts |
Interesting points regarding the San Francisco mint, I couldnt help but wonder , if say they struck pennies in San Francisco wouldnt this help reduce the distribution costs of pennies hence reducing the loss the mint and government make on the penny ?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
997 Posts |
Riddle me this: What if they just eliminated mint marks? Other than for allowing collectors to have additional items to collect do they really serve a purpose these days? Is there any real need for them at all?
As far as the public goes, who cares if the coin was made at Philly, Denver, San Francisco et al?
By eliminating mint marks the Mint can produce coins at any of their factories (what mints really are now) and distribute them as needed without worry. They proved in 65-67 that a mint mark is not really needed for commerce. Now we all know that collectors were not the prime reason for the coin shortages(?) of the time but the lack of mint marks for 3 years on larger value coins didn't seem to make a huge difference.
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Moderator
Australia
16809 Posts |
Quote:
if say they struck pennies in San Francisco wouldnt this help reduce the distribution costs of pennies hence reducing the loss the mint and government make on the penny ? If they made enough of them to make a difference, sure. But the SF mint as it currently exists and operates is incapable of making such a difference. And there isn't space in downtown SF to expand the site there to accommodate a modern coin factory. Hence my comment about a new mint site elsewhere in California. Quote:
What if they just eliminated mint marks? As I mentioned in this old thread on the subject, mintmarks today serve no practical purpose other than encouraging coin collectors to collect more coins. Some other countries have multiple mint sites and no mintmarks (eg. mainland China, Japan and Canada) and it doesn't seem to make any difference economically. However, eliminating them would not save terribly much money and in the face of tradition there is insufficient motivation to change. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Putting an S or W on a coin takes up to much room. An on some coins there just ain't no room for a Mint Mark. And even the P Mint Mark is never clear enough at times so should just be left off. And if all were left off, no more RPM's either. However, if the Mints started to leave off ALL Mint Marks, the manufacturers of Albums, Folders, etc. would probably start law suites about their losses of sales since they have slots for all the Mint Marks. With all this about State Quarters, I would think that every State would want their own Mint. So imagine 50 State coins with 50 different Mint Marks. Only problem there is they would need 2 letters for all States. Of course if they really wanted to just make coins, why not have each Mint make all coins with all Mint Marks. P, W, D, S all out of each Mint. |
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Pillar of the Community
1325 Posts |
I agree thgat P and D often look too similar so there is a problem with that. other than that I could care less about mint marks unless there is a hole for on in the folder I am trying to complete. I think the bigger problem is a "coin" not intended for circulation in the first place and only for collectors. I don';t mind it, but I think as for "mint marks" go, they should be marked, not by which location makes them but for purpose. Then with the above mentioned S-ony proofs, you know if you found something good even if you nothing about coin collecting other than you got something with a little bit of difference to it. Do we really need to know which Mint they came from since it isn't being done to support the local areas anymore? I don't think so. I would put a C on all coins intended for circulation that are made in either Denver or Philly, and put a P on the proofs, if they need a mintmark at all. I would say the special coins to look at the coin design like proofs should not have a mintmark, but that is an extra feature that could help counterfeiting I guess? When San Fran quit making circulating coins,t he continued use of mintmarks was pointless. I am jsut now looking into Canadians because so many were appearing in pennies boxes and got a folder for them, but see no mint marks. Canada makes less coins I am sure, but does it all in one place for about the same size area as the US? The distance between the circulating coins mints and their distribution areas are not even close as it is, so I would say shift the coins to one or the other. Let San Fran makes its little proofs. West Point, what do they do mostly? ASE? Let them have that and other super special coins. Then which is bigger? Philly or Denver? Let the bigger handle the cents and nickels and maybe even dimes for the whole country, and the smaller handle the quarters with their funky special 56 coin series's, and halves and dollars. and any other actual coin that is NIFC. We have outgrown out current mintmark system due to distribution so it and the minting system should be changed for modern times where we no longer have CC, O or even C mint marks. |
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Moderator
United States
187862 Posts |
I could not care less about mint marks when it comes to the Presidential dollars. The mint mark is on the edge, and I cannot see it when in an album, so I decided to make that a date only set. Also, since it would drive me mad knowing some were P and some were D, some were position A and some were position B, I also made is a PROOF only set.  |
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Valued Member
 United States
446 Posts |
Me, I like knowing where my coins were minted, so I like mintmarks. I'm thinking OK, W-marked cents would be hoarded by collectors.
Anyone know what the mintage figures are for West Point and San Francisco for these "plain" cents? I tried googling it but couldn't come up with an answer.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1795 Posts |
Hmmm certainly gives one Pause for Thought! I still think the mint has the collector in mind especially when one's dipping into ones pocketbook. Now thats really something to think about ...yes. Do it every time I order from the mint.
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Replies: 11 / Views: 2,169 |
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Posted 08/18/2014 2:10 pm
