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1863 Ih Cent Error - What Kind Of Error Would This Be?

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Ladydiz's Avatar
United States
39 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2014  6:07 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ladydiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I recently acquired the following Indian Head and noticed what looks like an error on the reverse. I would be interested in knowing kind of error this is and how it would happen.

Obverse:
1863-Ih-Cent-Error---What-Kind-Of-Error-Would-This-Be?

Reverse:
1863-Ih-Cent-Error---What-Kind-Of-Error-Would-This-Be?

Close up:
1863-Ih-Cent-Error---What-Kind-Of-Error-Would-This-Be?

1863-Ih-Cent-Error---What-Kind-Of-Error-Would-This-Be?

Thank you!
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westernsky's Avatar
United States
7620 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2014  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a Cud from a broken reverse die to me. The shattered die hasn't separated yet so the detail is still there. There is corresponding weakness, as would be expected, on the reverse. Neat find.

That's my Two Cents.
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Rollsearcher37's Avatar
United States
1295 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2014  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rollsearcher37 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What you have is called a Retained Cud (or retained die break). Here's some info on how this type of error occurs.

http://cuds-on-coins.com/retained-cuds/
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Ladydiz's Avatar
United States
39 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2014  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ladydiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you both. The reference page is really helpful. I love to find out why the error. This explained it very well.

Is this a fairly common error? I don't think I have seen this before on an IH, but I am a newbie on these.

Thanks again.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2014  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These can go for a premium, almost always, even very large premiums in some cases.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
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Matteproof's Avatar
Korea, Republic Of
1881 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2014  9:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Matteproof to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a retained die break ( Cud) for sure. And a really nice example at that.
I am sure that it will carry some premium.
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Ladydiz's Avatar
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 Posted 10/17/2014  9:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ladydiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice. Thanks again for everyone's help!

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Drsandman2's Avatar
United States
1374 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2014  02:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have the Cud book and will look it up when I get a chance.
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Ladydiz's Avatar
United States
39 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2014  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ladydiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Drsandman2, that would be great!

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Drsandman2's Avatar
United States
1374 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2014  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I looked in The Design Cud by Marvin and Margolis, but didn't see it. Others would know if there is an updated reference.

Russ
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2014  12:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a nice one!
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Ladydiz's Avatar
United States
39 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2014  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ladydiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks all. If anyone knows what kind of value it might have, I would appreciate knowing. Not that I will sell it, it is going into my collection.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4416 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2014  10:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought that I had one that's similar to the OP's. It took me some days,but I finally found it ...

1863-Ih-Cent-Error---What-Kind-Of-Error-Would-This-Be?

1863-Ih-Cent-Error---What-Kind-Of-Error-Would-This-Be?

1863-Ih-Cent-Error---What-Kind-Of-Error-Would-This-Be?

I thought it might be a "mate" of sorts to the OP's specimen. However, that one reaches further south, whereas mine branches north. Yet the two are in almost the same location.
Edited by ExoGuy
10/29/2014 10:58 pm
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indiancentvarieties's Avatar
United States
70 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2015  05:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add indiancentvarieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ladydiz, would you consider submitting your 1863 to be published in a web book I am presently working on?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2015  07:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ladydiz, would you consider submitting your 1863 to be published in a web book I am presently working on?


Have you reached a tentative attribution on this one? It'd be cool to place it as a die state of a known variety.
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indiancentvarieties's Avatar
United States
70 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2015  08:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add indiancentvarieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No sir, I don't have an earlier die state of this in my database and I don't believe it is a known documented variety. It seems that when I add a die pair with a Cud to the web resource, all of a sudden I start finding earlier die states to complete the progression.
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