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Cartwheel Luster

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0xDA71D's Avatar
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1215 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2014  10:58 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 0xDA71D to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
When describing it, I compare it to a vinyl record.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2014  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually the surface structure of a vinyl record and a coin with cartwheel luster is quite different, although they both produce a similar radial light reflection pattern.

A vinyl record is pressed with a concentric spiral groove, the coin is simply stamped (pressed), but there is a small amount of metal surface flow that occurs radially towards the rim.

A proof coin does not exhibit radial mint luster, because both the die and the flan are polished before the coin is pressed (struck). Radial metal surface flow may still occur, but that flow characteristic is heavily masked by the two highly polished surfaces.
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2014  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "cartwheel" light on a vinyl record will be along the same axis as the light source, and a coin it is perpendicular to the light source. (If tthe light is coming from 3:00 on the record the reflected light will be running from 9:00 to 3:00. On a coin it would be running from 12:00 to 6:00)


Quote:
Radial metal surface flow may still occur, but that flow characteristic is heavily masked by the two highly polished surfaces.

The cartwheel doesn't show up untl the die strats to acquire microscopic radial flow lines from wear. (I believe this is what the Mint calls "starburst", and when it starts to become noticeable they retire the die. n the 40's and 50's they would repolish the dies to remove it and continue using the die. Franly that is why so many of the brilliant proofs from back then look so bad.)

I sometimes wonder if new collectors today understand why it is called Cartwheel?

Being a youngster back in the early 60's I grew up watchng a lot of westerns. There would freaquently be chase scenes and because of the frame rate of the camera compared to the spokes on the stagecoach/wagons/cartwheels, you would often see light and dark radial bands coming out from the axles of the wheels and they would rotate around the axle, usually in the opposite direction of the wheels rotation. The light bands of the coin as you rotate the coin in the light looks a lot like those on the cartwheels.
Edited by Conder101
11/17/2014 1:13 pm
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2014  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Conder101: It follows from what you have explained that 'DMPL' Morgans must be the products of very new dies.
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Chute72's Avatar
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1314 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2014  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many DMPL Morgans are the product of recently polished dies. Often times a die will be taken out of service to polish out a clash or rust pitting. Because the dies are not intended to be actual proof strikes, they will still have some die scratches and tool marks. However, just as on a proof die, the polished surface makes any imperfection more noticeable. These marks can be used to distinguish one set of dies from another.


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scottk's Avatar
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767 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2014  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scottk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know if this question is answerable, but when does cartwheel luster ordinarily go away?

I have a small collection of Peace dollars. I can see a faint cartwheel at around f-xf condition, but somewhere down around vg, it's gone.

Is that normally the case? Or is it just a case by case thing?
Edited by scottk
11/17/2014 6:50 pm
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0xDA71D's Avatar
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 Posted 11/17/2014  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 0xDA71D to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cartwheel effect is contingent of delicate flow lines on the fields of the coin. So any wear on the field of the coin would remove the cartwheel effect. I'm thinking around AU50 such cartwheel effect is removed, assuming the coin has a cartwheel effect to begin with.
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scottk's Avatar
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767 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2014  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scottk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you OxDA.

It's possible that the coin I'm thinking of with the faint cartwheel could be around au-50 and not xf.

Peace dollars seem difficult to grade at times.
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2014  5:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Conder101: It follows from what you have explained that 'DMPL' Morgans must be the products of very new dies.

either very new, or freshly repolished dies. New dies will tend to have stronger cameo contrast than repolished dies because as the dies were used the metal movement tends to polish the detail areas of the die and the cameo fades. repolishing the dies only affects the fields so the cameo in the devices is not restored.
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