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 Replies: 16 / Views: 5,584 |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
I recently purchased a presentation box ( ebay item 231371124484) that held an Australian 1934-35 Centenary florin. Has anyone ever seen a presentation box(for any coin or jewellry)from the 1920s or 1930s with that particular brown and black textured paper? I'm trying to track the source of the box and I'm assuming the box is either Australian or English. Staff note: Adding your duplicate question in here as it contains additional information.I purchased a presentation box that held a Centenary florin given to the recipient by Councillor Nettlefold (he was in charge of the issuing). The indent is a perfect size for the florin so the box may have been commissioned for the Centenary Florins. Alternatively the box may have been previously used for say a proof English florin. It is also possible that the distinctive black and brown paper on the outside of the box was used by one of the mints (possibly London or Heaton) for their presentation proof/specimens or by one of the dealers such as Spinks or Baldwins. It is also possible that the boxes were made by a jewellery shop and that paper is recognisable to that shop. So has anyone ever seen a box like this? 2nd Staff note: Moving to the Australia section for additional expert eyes. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2133 Posts |
£190 for an old box with the rear hinge of the lid torn & two sides of the lid worn.
It seems incredibly expensive.
Did those bidders think they were getting the coin, too ?
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
852 Posts |
That price was a bargain. A department store issued 30,000 of the florins in pretty small basic paper bags with the stores name on it. Those unofficial commercial bags sell for well over 190 pounds if in decent used condition (most are battered and still sell quite well) So a box with the connections to the guy in charge is not only bigger, it is also semi official and it is RARE.
They were unlikely to have thought it included the florin as the listing was very specific in saying box only, no coin (in big letters).
A slightly fancier box in better condition sold for $1,100 (plus commission) last year and it was just an unofficial box from a newspaper contest of the time.
Exonumia can sell for serious money.
I should add that Councillor Nettlefold was in charge of the florin comittee so the recipient got the florin from a senior official.
Edited by nealeffendi
11/17/2014 10:28 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
937 Posts |
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That price was a bargain . I bet it was. This is something that I have never understood. The box can be worth more than the coin that came in it.  Personally I credit the 'Beanie Baby' mentality for this one. As I collect coins, not the package they come in, I am often left shaking my head over package and label premiums. But, that is the beaty of colecting, we each follow our own path and collect what we want. I hope you sell that box for a tidy profit. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
From the pictures, I don't see any evidence at all that this box was specifically for a Centenary Florin.
Lots of medals of about this size exist, and in many cases, such medals in the first half of the 20th century came in presentation boxes.
What I would have like to have seen is some supporting documentry evidence that this sort of box was actually sanctioned by the Melbourne Centenary Council. There should have been some article published in a coin magazine, such as the Australiasian Coin and Banknote Magazine, but I have never read an article that relates to presentation boxes for Melbourne Centenary Florins.
I have however, read many articles that at least make a passing reference to Foy's bags.
Would it be possible for anyone here in the CCF to post a link to an article that relates specifically to the use of boxes for the presentation of Melbourne Centenary Florins?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
Hi Sel, the indent is an exact fit for a florin, so if it was a medallion box then the medallion was the exact size of a florin. Did they medallions an exact size as that would cause confusion with coinage, plus the indent has no room for either a pin at the back or a loop at the top and the ribbon to help raise the florin out indicates that it had to not have any attachments on a medallion (a perfect florin size and shaped medallion? I think not). Also the box did have a Centenary florin in it and the writing on the bottom does say Cr. Nettlefold 1934+5 so the florin was there since the 1930s as Nettlefold became mayor of Melbourne in about 1942 (it would presumably have Lord Mayor Nettlefold if the florin was put in years later). The florin and box was reportedly purchased from a Melbourne dealer and both were seen at a Melbourne coin show by a prominent dealer (a well struck circulation Centenary in high grade). So unlikely to be a scam to sell a box. I'm trying to find any evidence that the box was officially sanctioned (that is why I'm posting here and elsewhere and asking questions). The newspapers of the day do record things like the Governor striking the first florin and then purchasing 8 more, but frustratingly they don't mention if they were presented in boxes or envelopes or as loose coins. I'm hoping someone can recognise the box,if someone says they have a medallion or earrings in a box with the same paper then that is a lead. Same if they say they have an English proof florin in the same box (my research has shown that The Royal Mint used red coloured boxes from at least 1927-1950 so I've sort of eliminated that source). If it was a medallion box then it was from the Empire and not the Continent as the box dimensions match inches (not metric). There are other researchers following up leads about the striking of the Centenary florin, they may come across a reference yet to official presentations or the expense accounts records of purchasing boxes. It is both fun and frustrating being a numismatic researcher. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2133 Posts |
What other boxes or cases are as or more valuable than the coins they contained, please ?
I have several old cases without the coins they contained and lots of medals without their cases.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Neal: I think you are certainly going down the right track to provide supporting evidence.
It may be worth your effort writing an inquiry with the picture, and sending it to the Australiasian Coin and Banknote Magazine.
Hopefully they may publish your inquiry.
Lets be hoping that you can find some good supporting evidence, because the potential is there to have something quite rare, and of some concrete historical value.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
937 Posts |
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What other boxes or cases are as or more valuable than the coins they contained, please ? Well, about two years ago I purchased two of the British 1953 coin sets in the plastic holders. I cut one up to put into my English type set that I am putting together I brought to my LCS for an opinion. He told me he would sell it for about $9 bought if I had the display box that went with it it would sell for $30. I looked into getting the box and could not get one for under $20. I paid less than $10 for the set. I was stunned!  I have not yet brought myself to pay for the display box. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
Almost all NCLT coins of the past 40-50 years without their packaging sell for less than half the price of those with their packaging. But there is also plenty of coin boxes of the past 40 years that sell for a buck after the coin has been removed (to melt for the silver content).
For coins issued from before the 1950s however it is rare for the packaging to be worth more than the coins.
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
526 Posts |
Its amazing, but much of this old packaging is worth serious money. I have definitely given/thrown boxes away in the past, but lately try to find out more before disposing of it.
About a year ago I bought some collectable bits and bobs from a local stamp dealer which had been placed the merchandise in an old plain green tin box. It turned out the tin itself was WW2 (troops ration tin) and collectable. I sold it for about $70
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
I agree with Neal - there are times when boxes can be worth a fair amount despite what many suggest. As long as you have just a couple of buyers wanting to have a bidding war out over one, why can't boxes be collectable?
While I don't really collect pre-decimal coinage, I have attempted to assemble an entire set of Soviet silver coinage with original COA and boxes. That took at least 4 years despite a set of just 12 coins and it proved to be a lot harder and expensive than I expected. Also take for example the Chinese coins. Their coin boxes sell for 20 dollars easily and more for certain rarer coins.
Agreed, many don't take such boxes seriously. And therefore it only makes sense over time that when supply drops down, and when people realize how scarce they can be, demand can go up and hence do prices. Simple economics.
The best advice is to seek advice, stick to your guts and be the expert in your field.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
762 Posts |
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Almost all NCLT coins of the past 40-50 years without their packaging sell for less than half the price of those with their packaging. A few years ago when I started collecting I bought the latest proof set. There was some cardboard packing inside the box which I removed and threw away. It was only later that I discovered that buyers of proof sets prefer the cardboard inserts to be retained. I was stunned  I'm sure there are hardcore purist coin collectors who would view packaging with contempt, but really it is just another facet of the hobby. It's not one that interests me greatly but I can understand why it interests others. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Die cast metal model cars are much more highly valued, if they come with the original box they were sold in.
Dinky Toys, Micro Models, Corgi Toys, Matchbox Toys etc.
It would be REALLY be nice to know if the Florin box originally was for a Melbourne Centenary Florin.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
Hi Sel.
There is a lack of information out there about the Centenary florin and even the most experienced dealers are not aware of the florin varieties. So unless another box turns up with more details attached to it I may never be able to confirm if Nettlefold gave the florin in an official capacity or if it was given with the box or the recipient sourced his own box.
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New Member
Australia
15 Posts |
I noticed in the 2014 McDonalds catalogue there is a presentation box (page 101), however inside the box it says "Memento of Melbourne Centenary and 'The Star' Who will it Be? contest 1934-1935". Story goes the newspaper The Sun held a competition and gave them away as prizes but there is no record how many were made. It also points that another box which is identical to the first one but has the lettering missing. The price of them is $2600 for slightly damaged to $4750 to as new condtion
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Replies: 16 / Views: 5,584 |
Posted 11/17/2014 10:22 am
