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 Replies: 10 / Views: 1,863 |
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New Member
United States
22 Posts |
I realize that others have strong feelings with "cleaned" coins. Some have minor cleaning issues. We are sometimes talking about millionths of a millimeter in surface disturbance, so where do the major grading services draw the line?
I know the manager of one of the top shows in the northeast who can "fix" coins, gold coins that are unc. details "improperly cleaned" and get them into AU58 holders. He can't disclose his method but he has a way of rubbing the surface with a cue tip and minor abrasive to wear it down and make it market acceptable. People who reject all "cleaned" or "problem" coins would probably buy a coin that was a higher grade level if it were in the next lower grade in a holder.
What are the options with cleaned coins? Should we be going back to the dealer we bought them from to get our money back?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
711 Posts |
Buyer beware as far as returns go, and that is coming from a buyer only.
If you see the coin in person and then buy it and then discover that it is cleaned, I can't see how that entitles you to a refund honestly. Fair has nothing to do with purchasing, taxation sure, but not purchasing decisions.
Perhaps if the dealer made specific reference to a grade without the cleaned comments, but otherwise caveat emptor.
Kind of like chess, once you took your hand off the piece, the move is made.
Interested in hearing more about fixing gold coins so I can be on the lookout.
Edited by BuckeyeCoinGuy
11/19/2014 09:13 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Cleaned coins as a no-no is rather overly mentioned. I wouldn't doubt that many collectors and even dealers have cleaned coins and don't know. Also, I'm sure that since TPGS's are made up of PEOPLE, that some cleaned coins have gone through and not noted as cleaned. In a world full of cleaned coins and counterfeited ones, I'm sure may get through un-noticed.
As to cleaned coins. If I see one that even says cleaned on a 2x2 or other type of flip and I need it, if the price is right, I buy it. Why not? I'll never sell it so as long as it fills a slot in my Albums, that is OK with me.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19935 Posts |
Quote:
where do the major grading services draw the line?
When they can visually detect any sembalance of cleaning. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1512 Posts |
Quote:
As to cleaned coins. If I see one that even says cleaned on a 2x2 or other type of flip and I need it, if the price is right, I buy it. Why not? I'll never sell it so as long as it fills a slot in my Albums, that is OK with me. I agree with this with one modification. I TRY to find coins that I think look nice as well. Otherwise, Carl, I think you have nailed it on the head. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1314 Posts |
Sometimes it is important to define "cleaning." I do it all the time and recommend it. Most of my circulated coins are grimy to begin with, so an acetone bath rinses of a lot of crud, finger oils and possibly some toxins I cannot see. And as loyal patron of the melt bucket and bargain barrel, sometimes a little verdigris removal is required. Most of my ancients benefit from dirt removal. My usual rule is to leave the patina intact. That rules out the grinder, power sander and any drill attachments. As of Monday, I've decided to dabble in world coins. I grabbed 10 foreign coins for $1.50, then went home and put on my glasses to see what I had. This one required several hours of work, but I am pleased with the results. Personally, I think the lamination issue adds to its charm. However, resize and resample really evacuates (not stinks) the life and color out of these images.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1314 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
I don't classify a dip in acetone or even a long soak a cleaning, conservation yes, cleaning no. If you scrub or wipe the coin then you are crossing the line on uncirculated coins.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Most ancient coins HAVE to be cleaned, when recovered from burial.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
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who can "fix" coins, gold coins that are unc. details "improperly cleaned" and get them into AU58 holders. He can't disclose his method but he has a way of rubbing the surface with a cue tip and minor abrasive to wear it down and make it market acceptable. that's not fixing, it's cleaning. cleaning the crud off a circulated coin is one thing. using ANY abrasive takes it to a whole new level. whoever is certifying these doctored coins without catching/noting the details needs a new loupe. |
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New Member
 United States
22 Posts |
I have heard very harsh things about using MS70, that it's not cleaning it's an "abortion". Then you have all the surface cleaning agents, some of which NCS and PCGS restoration use, of course they don't disclose their methods. It seems to be verboten to speak about proprietary and controversial methods. This reminds me of the  and anti-porn recovery sites; on the anti-porn sites any mention of the former is considered "triggering" and is therefore forbidden. The weird thing here is that coins in circulation or in albums would naturally go from a higher grade to a lower grade. Many collectors would not buy a problem unc. unless they could get it for a fraction of market price. But they would buy an AU50 in a problem free holder. Many people have spoken of the dusty windowsill method or Wayte-Raymond style holders that improve the coin enough to be market acceptable. |
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Replies: 10 / Views: 1,863 |
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Posted 11/19/2014 10:11 am
