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8 Reales 1770 Fm Mexico , Is This Abnormal ?

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New Member
Moroccan Friend's Avatar
24 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2014  6:30 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Moroccan Friend to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi friend BOB
Thanks more for the interest you are always giving to my request about the 8 Reales 1770 FM Mexico silver coin I 'm interesting in actually , now I 'm in big need of your great experience about such coins , because while comparing my coin (1) to a same type of coins in a website catalogue (2) :
http://www.wikimoneda.com/fiche.php?id=6012
I was surprised by three things :
1/ weight is varying from 26,7 gr ( catalogue ) to my 27,1 gr of mine ;
2/ diameter from 35 mm in this link to 39 mm of mine ;
3/ crowns on columns: my crown on the left is sharper than that in the web,
over and against my crown on the right is cleared, partially blurred, while all my coin details are well striked and does not suffer from wear circulating!
is this a mistake? or a witness of fraud?
Otherwise, no other warning sign seems be seen in my coin ; compared to the web coin .
thanks for explaining to a profane as me what all those remarques seems meaning !

8-Reales-1770-Fm-Mexico-,-Is-This-Abnormal-?

8-Reales-1770-Fm-Mexico-,-Is-This-Abnormal-?

8-Reales-1770-Fm-Mexico-,-Is-This-Abnormal-?
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wonghinghi's Avatar
Hong Kong
1270 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2014  7:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wonghinghi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

1) 27.1 gr is within the tolerant limit.
2) 39 mm is correct, the website does not provide accurate value
3) crown on your coin has a mild wearing

I don't see anything wrong with your coin.

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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2014  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wonghinghi Is correct as far as the data presented goes.

The weigh of 27.1 grams is at or near the mint limit. I really would like to know an accurate weight to 1/100th gram. A weight rounded to 1/10th gram could actually weight anywhere from 27.05 to 27.15 grams. That may not seem like a lot but 27.05 represents NO problem but 27.15 could represent a problem. The reason is because there is some slight wear on your coin based on the picture. I would really expect the coin to weigh closer to 27.00 grams. The problem with tolerance in this case is that it can excuse potential counterfeits.

The diameter of 39 mm is correct in some contexts - particularly with reference to Mexico City issues of 1770 and 1771. That said I would prefer to see the coin measure 37.5 to 38.5 mm.

So you have a coin at the limits of tolerance (potentially) which could taken together be an issue.

The top of the crown on the right of the obverse is opposite a fully struck area on the opposite side - that is incorrect and to me indicates there MUST BE ACTUAL WEAR at that point on the coin - an abrasion that may have been intentional that removed metal. There is only a filled die left as a potential reason for the weakness. Filled dies in open sided presses ARE NOT COMMON.

This inappropriate weakness must be explained or it becomes a point of suspicion.

Until there are better pictures I can not comment much further.
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Moroccan Friend's Avatar
24 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2014  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moroccan Friend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dear friend BOB
next days I'll give you better closer photos of my 8 reales from many incidences , so , with better pictures I expect from you the final judgement "to be or not to be" falcified about my coin :-)
thank you for your grateful efforts BRAVO!
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jfransch's Avatar
United States
1801 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2014  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Moroccan Friend,
As stated by Bob, the 1770 and 1771 Mo Pillar dollars (and the first two years of portrait dollars in 1772 and 1773) were generally struck on very broad planchets allowing for full image and well defined denticles all around. They can usually be picked out of a stack of milled dollars based on the size alone. Your coin at 39mm would not surprise me at all. However, personally, I would be very concerned by the strange lack of strike on the side of the crown as you pointed out, that does not look right in my humble opinion. I am also interested in seeing more pictures of this coin before rendering an opinion.
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Moroccan Friend's Avatar
24 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2014  03:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moroccan Friend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi jfransch & thank you for you contribution;
as I've said to friend Bob , soon I'll show you best pictures correctly zooming on details , essentially focusing the right crown & it's "strange" look .
read you soon :-)
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