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Opinions On Blast White Classic US Coins?

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wheatchaser140's Avatar
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2368 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2014  4:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add wheatchaser140 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hey CCF. I've been thinking and doing some research on coins. Some of the stuff on toned coins vs blast white coins was very thought provoking, especially when dipping is being discussed. Here's a specific article about it:
http://www.coinweek.com/featured-ne...ipped-coins/
This one right here was interesting. The author, Greg Reynolds, an expert in the field of numismatics takes a very negative stance on blast white classic coins and dipping. Some of it I found a little troubling. A few of Reynolds's main points were:

-Originality is more important than the numerical grade.
-Many classic US coins have been dipped at some point in the past.
-Reputable TPGs will assign high grades to obviously dipped coins.
-Blast white classic coins have almost certainly been dipped.
-Naturally toned coins are better than blast white examples.
-Naturally toned coins are for sophisticated collectors and blast white coins are for beginners.
-Dipping destroys much of the coin's character and history.
-Dipped coins can gradually retone in a pleasing manner.
-The vast majority of dipped coins have no place in any collection.
-NGC and PCGS might assign high grades to dipped coins for marketability.

Personally, I was a little shocked by the article, and I wanted to get your opinions on blast white and/or dipped classic US coins, especially from our expert members. What do you think?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2014  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I want to meet someone who can unequivocally tell me a coin has been dipped. Done right, I'm unaware that's possible. Nor do I find it hard to believe a coin can survive 150 years without toning - heck, there's original untoned Roman silver.

I also tend to dismiss unequivocal opinions on subjective topics. Doesn't pass the smell test.

With all that said, yeah, most of them have been dipped. Tell me which ones.
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wheatchaser140's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2014  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wheatchaser140 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I also tend to dismiss unequivocal opinions on subjective topics. Doesn't pass the smell test.

Thanks for the quick reply Dave. I was skeptical as well.

Quote:
With all that said, yeah, most of them have been dipped. Tell me which ones.

Has my pride and joy been dipped possibly?

Opinions-On-Blast-White-Classic-US-Coins?

Opinions-On-Blast-White-Classic-US-Coins?

What also bothered me was how the author completely dismissed blast white coins. I found it invalidating to be honest.
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861 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2014  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add g048406 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the 60's, 70's and 80's, coin enthusiasts were urged to clean their classic coins. I am convinced that nearly all classic coins have been cleaned to some degree in it's past. I personally don't believe that minor cleaning should even be considered as a detriment to a coin. Either way, blast-white or toned, is really just a matter of personal preference.......they're cleaned anyway. JMHO
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GR58's Avatar
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11951 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2014  5:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO .. that is a very stupid opinion.

I guess he is saying that all the blast white GSA Morgan dollars
were dipped before they put them in the holders.

Edit .. like this ..

Opinions-On-Blast-White-Classic-US-Coins?

Opinions-On-Blast-White-Classic-US-Coins?
Edited by GR58
12/28/2014 5:40 pm
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2014  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At my coin club, Bill Fivaz gave a small talk about dipping coins. He told us about a display of BU silver Washington quarters that he made to show the progression of a coin's surface after subsequent dips. He had an original coin from an original bank roll. He then had a quarter that had been dipped once, twice, three times, and so on and so forth. He said that he was asked several times abput how he could tell that the one coin was dipped only once. He said, "It's because I took it out of the roll and dipped it myself." He concluded that it is nearly impossible to tell if a coin has been dipped once, and therefore it would not hurt a coin to carefully dip it once.
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wheatchaser140's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2014  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wheatchaser140 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BU Washington quarters are one thing, but coins like this scare me:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1799-BUST-1...em27f511ea69
What's the verdict on this, overdipped? NGC said it was problem-free, but I have my doubts...
Edited by wheatchaser140
12/28/2014 7:11 pm
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2014  7:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dipped? Probably. Lookin' good? Yeah.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2014  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both the obverse and reverse have a 45 degree rotation.
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2014  01:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd say the 1799 has been dipped. Overdipped? Maybe but a dipped non-MS coin tends to look it.
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T-BOP's Avatar
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2014  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not a fan of ugly brown or black silver coins. nor do I like overly dipped ones. I try to obtain
uncirculated coins with natural mint luster. yea ,a lot of times it's hard to tell if the coin was only dipped once and only for a couple of seconds. it's up to individual taste.
Tony
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2014  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My 40 years of collecting coins has taught me the following:

Dipping is NOT cleaning. Why?....Because cleaning gets bodybagged by the TPG's, while dipping does not.

The TPG's definitely 'reward' or bump up the grade of a coin for high luster (read: dipping!!). Hence the prevalence and market acceptability of dipping.

Most older coins that are blast white have been dipped.

It is true that if you took a blast white coin straight from the Mint and dipped it only one time, NO ONE could tell the difference. It is only with repeated dips that the surface gets 'stripped' and if repeated many times, you end of with a super dull, greyish colored coin.

The 1799 dollar that was posted above has been dipped for sure, probably more than once. Anyone who has their doubts as to whether or not this coin has been dipped should educate themself about the subject.

Here in Canada (and probably the US) in the 1970's in all the major coin shows, you could walk the entire bourse floor and not find ONE toned coin!!
Blast white, dipped coins was the fashion then and I can recall almost every coin dealer had a jar of dip behind them and it was not unusual to see them dipping coins at the show.

I once saw an original Unc set of King George V (1911 to 1936) quarters and almost all of them were black. However, the luster they exhibited was so strong that you knew they were original. I have yet to see the same thing EVER - the combination of a black coin with super high luster. These coins in the hands of most collectors are just 'begging' to be dipped because I know the result would be a super high grade, frosty white coin that the TPG's would just love to slap a high grade on.(Personally, I wouldn't dip them, but I know experienced collectors who regularly submit coins to the TPG's would absolutely do so because they would achieve a higher grade by two or three points).

Let me conclude by saying I wouldn't be too concerned if my high grade coin was dipped or not, because there will never be a 100% agreement if your coin has been dipped or not. Some (like myself) will say 'yes', but others will say 'not a chance, it's original'. Why lose sleep over it?


Edited by doubleeagle59
12/29/2014 09:28 am
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NathanASE's Avatar
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 Posted 12/29/2014  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NathanASE to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tough topic... A lot of strong opinions on this one. But bottom line... There is no right or wrong, it's all just personal opinion no matter how strongly one feels about it.

I guess I'm probably the odd man out... Lol, but I guess It's not really a secret on here if you've heard me discuss this before, lol, but I do agree with a lot of the points in the article, not all, but a good many. I've actually heard a lot of those comments elsewhere randomly too..

I'm really not a fan of blast white coins, I don't mind them, and a couple of my favorites are in fact white. But given the choice I'd definitely take a toner over an identical, white coin, that's no secret. Do I have blast white coins? Absolutely, in fact I have a couple I really like (until they can be upgraded to a toner, lol.) But as mentioned, there's no way to be "sure" if a coins been dipped, but I can be pretty positive my toners are natural, which is what I prefer. And I know many of you disagree, which is totally fine. Can one tell for sure it's been dipped once? Probably, well, most definitely not, but the chances are stacked pretty tall that it was if it's a 100+ year old silver piece.

And moreso, I definitely don't like blast white circulated coins... They just look wrong... Lol.


Quote:
Dipping is NOT cleaning. Why?....Because cleaning gets bodybagged by the TPG's, while dipping does not.


Respectfully, I kind of disagree.. Well with the reasoning why at least. Cleaned, damaged, artificially toned and even counterfeit coins end up in TPG slabs, so just the fact that they don't bodybag a coin because it's dipped doesn't mean anything. And further, they don't bodybag toned coins, in fact they often bump the grade if they have great eye appeal, yet a large number of people consider a toned coin damaged. Not to mention of course they're going to grade them ..... Otherwise the majority of classic coins would be bagged as the majority have been dipped so they'd be out of business.. Lol.

But actually in a way, I do consider a dipped coin cleaned.... Not to the extent of taking a wire brush to them, but definitely moreso at least than a toned coin being "damaged" as many say. Your taking off (cleaning) the natural toning, which is a natural occurrence for silver. I mean dipping is literally almost the definition of cleaning... Your removing tarnish or whatnot to make the coin "look better".... That sounds a lot like cleaning to me, lol. But that's just me.... Again I'd definitely take a nice toner over a blast white coin anyday! Have all blast white coins been dipped? Well of course not, but there's definitely a good chance the majority have been, as mentioned above it was not only common practice not too long ago, but it was actually encouraged!

Can a silver coin survive for however many hundreds of years without toning? Sure, I'm sure there's a few around that are actually original.... But.... I'd say that's an extreme case and not even close to the norm, something happened or extreme care was taken to prevent that coin from toning. Silver tarnishes... All silver, coins, jewelery, silver/flatware etc.... All silver. Again, as much as many don't want to hear/except it... unless extreme precautions are taken your silver coins will eventually tone due to the natural occurrence of elements with the elements in the coin.

What gets to me is when people call a beautiful, acceptably toned coin "damaged" or "ruined" and drool over the most likely dipped blast white example lying next to it saying it's "original".... When the complete opposite is true... And then they get heated about it when you differ in opinion.


Quote:
I guess he is saying that all the blast white GSA Morgan dollars
were dipped before they put them in the holders.


I'm not trying to be disrespectful or argue in the least ... But In all honesty, It really wouldn't surprise me in the least if a good many were dipped before being put in the holders. They sat in mint bags in the back of vaults for years on end.... I'm sure a good many picked up some toning, is it really that unreasonable to believe they could have been dipped before being put into the holders? Especially being in the era mentioned above and by others where it was encouraged to dip them.... So ya.... Though it'd be near impossible to know 100% I'd say it's a safe bet that a good percentage of GSA Morgans have most definitely been dipped.... Which won't stop me from buying them in the least...heck, they're what got me back into collecting after a break, and bar none one of my favorites to collect still.
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wheatchaser140's Avatar
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 Posted 12/29/2014  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wheatchaser140 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some excellent points Nathan. If you don't mind, I'd love to see some pictures of your best toners!
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 Posted 12/29/2014  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All sort of a not possible conclusion. I prefer blast white Mercury dimes. IF they were dipped or cleaned in the past, may well never know. Unless a person could follow the life of each coin, they would never really know where or what or how it got like it is. Yes most would be able to tell if harshly cleaned but a slight dip in what? Dipping in water, Acetone, etc. would show nothing. Dipping in ACID may well show and a lot too. I still like blast white Silver coins. I'm not a fan of toned coins so if dipped in the past, I could care less. I put my coins in Albums and don't sell them, have them graded by a TPGS and don't show them to tons of people. So if any of my coins were ever dipped, cleaned, etc. just my collection.
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Cruisinfusion's Avatar
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1531 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2014  2:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cruisinfusion to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Edit .. like this ..


GR58... Every time I see that coin, I can't help it!

My opinions on blast white coins?

I like them. A lot. Edit: And honestly, I think natural toning can sometimes take away character. I've seen some very ugly toning before - but that's not what I'm talking about. I really love coins that have a cameo or frosty look to them (It's actually what I like best when looking for Morgans), but when a coin is toned, it is harder to identify that. Yes, I have a few toned coins in my collection, but they're far from my favorites.
Edited by Cruisinfusion
12/29/2014 2:59 pm
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