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 Replies: 16 / Views: 3,761 |
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New Member
United States
35 Posts |
I just got an 1809 Capped Bust Half, and the diameter is about a mm larger than my 1810 and others. Is this a normal variation for this date and series?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1566 Posts |
I'm not so sure about early halves but early large cent diameters are all over the place. This has to do with the fact that coins from the earliest days of the mint were minted without collars so the coin kinda smooshed while it was being pressed. This is not uncommon with early coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
Same as the large cents, yes. They were struck open collar so that the edge lettering would not be obliterated. Each bust half will vary on its diameter. The closed collar striking begins with the 1836 reeded edge half.
Are you working on a date set, Ray?
Edited by DoubleEagle20
01/02/2015 6:11 pm
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Valued Member
United States
406 Posts |
I just measured my 1809 and it has a diameter of 33 mm. Best Regards,  George |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
As a parallel, British milled coinage before the Great Recoinage of 1816 had a small variation in diameter within each denomination.
I would expect that with similar methods of manufacture, all American half dollars up to 1836 would also have small variations in diameter.
Edited by sel_69l
01/04/2015 08:41 am
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New Member
 United States
35 Posts |
I am working on Dates and major Varieties. I have almost finished my Seated Liberty halves, and am moving into the earlier halves. Been reading the Overton Book, and I find the variations very interesting. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
You will find the variations in bust halves quite interesting I'm sure. The dies were hand crafted and coins were struck on manual screw presses. Each die pairing created a unique marriage of obverse and reverse for the coins. (aka an Overton). Keep in mind that the Overton order is not the actual emission order of the halves. You will need to find the Leaman-Gunnet emission order tables to see the actual order in which the coins were produced. From that document, you will see that many coins were not produced the same year as the die dating.
Edited by DoubleEagle20
01/04/2015 2:42 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Here are the emission tables: http://www.busthalfprices.com/emission.phpQuote:
By studying the changes in the impressions of the edge lettering dies Ivan Leaman and Donald Gunnet were able to determine the order in which the Bust Half Dollars were minted. Quite frankly, that sounds like snake oil to me. I'd love to know how they did that. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
Somehow they did by looking at the lettering impressions coming out of the Castaing machines used. It's surprising to see 1834's still being minted in 1836 (1834 o.110), but it makes sense. Dies were very difficult to craft in those days and you used them as long as possible.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Yeah, that's what gets to me. How many Castaing dies does it take to do a 3 million coin issue, and how do you know what order those dies were used in? I mean, they published, so they have to be sure, but I can't see any way to get there from a technical standpoint. I could see, for instance, matching dies used in multiple years though.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
I am still looking for a copy of the journal in which they published their study. I would love to read the methods they used to determine the exact order. It would be a really good read, IMO.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
I believe you can find it in the ANS Coinage of the Americas Conference for silver coins. they did it but examining the bust haves and identifying the different edge dies used (Just like you identify the obv and reverse dies) and then they did dies chaining and probaly also combined it with some die chaining of the obverse and reverse dies as well.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I can see how that might be possible, Conder. If you primarily work with Mint State or well-struck coins, they'll provide accurate results. But boy, that's a painstaking piece of work. I am in awe. Were the Overton varieties pretty much done by then? You could use the Castaing results to help reinforce die usage progressions, and vice versa. Where are we at with the Castaing dies themselves? Are they identified somewhere?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4409 Posts |
Quote:
I am still looking for a copy of the journal in which they published their study. I would love to read the methods they used to determine the exact order. It would be a really good read, IMO. There's some available on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...sr=8-1-fkmr0-MV |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
Leaman and Gunnet published their emission order in 1987, twenty years after the first edition of Al Overton's book. I would not be surprised if it was involved in their process, SuperDave :)
Thx, meadow...I just ordered a used copy of it for cheap!
I plan on reading their work and hope to gain a better understanding of it.
Edited by DoubleEagle20
01/05/2015 10:53 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
I just ordered it also...Thanks MVC!
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Replies: 16 / Views: 3,761 |
Posted 01/02/2015 6:06 pm
