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 Replies: 19 / Views: 1,878 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
I don't have this in hand yet, I am hoping that there are traces of iridescence under the dirt, but have never cleaned a coin toned like this. Any suggestions? I have not been able to find the reverse and so can't find a reference. I thought it might be Spes. Any suggestions as to the reverse? Shame it is a bit battered. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251785811...RK:MEBIDX:IT |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts |
My guess would be Pax, but I couldnt turn up a reference either. Olive branch/Cornucopia combo makes me think its pax.
This looks like a tricky one - a broken fourree, with toning. I think soaking in anything strong will take off the toning before the crud. The crud also looks to be metal salt, so it might be very firmly on there. My advice would be to clean it mechanically, but very very carefully.
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Interesting coin, I checked several sources including RIC but this reverse is not listed. I agree the coin is a fouree and is unrecorded.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts |
Well, this one was staring us in the face - its a mule with an early issue of Trajan. The obverse states COS III whilst the reverse clearly states COS II, the cos II being in Trajan's reign. And heres something more, a very early issue of Trajan with this very reverse:  The COS III limits the obverse to 97AD, whilst Trajan used COS II from 98 to 99AD. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
Thanks guys, looks like an interesting cleaning project. I didn't realise it was a fouree, but now that you mention it, that is cool. I think I will take my time with this one.
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
The reverse is a match to the Trajan.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
I don't think it is a die match. I am confused though. The obverse says COS IIII and the reverse says COS II. So have the forgers just got their hands on two dies and come up with this wierd coin?
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
No not a die match, but a match to the reverse type. Can't really be sure it's a fouree yet without it being cleaned up. At this point I'd call it a Mule.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts |
Its definitely a fourree - green at the high points and theres a flake of the silver missing from the S of the COS II.
I reckon forgers got their hands on a bunch of dies being disposed of - not necessarily just these - but likely couldnt understand the legends and just powered through.
It is interesting though - we know this was after 99AD - the die was current until then, and if we assume they continued use of the die at the mint until such a date, we can say they still had it until the COS III dies were cut. But whats also interesting is that its managed to be paired with a Nerva die - did the forges have this die for 2 years? The obverse is still sharp, I reckon that they probably acquired that die at the same time. I cant see a die being used for that long and remaining like that.
Perhaps the mint cleared out their old die stock, sent them to be melted and someone took the opportunity?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
Maybe after Nerva died (as in passed on) too many dies! I definitely like your thinking Ben, you certainly know how to put flesh on the stories. Ski, will call it a mule until I get it in hand.
If it looks like mechanical cleaning will harm it, I will leave it as it is rather than lose the iridescence. Is anyone interested in recording unrecorded forees?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts |
Well, to my knowledge, no one is working on a reference for this period at the moment, but its worth recording it - official dies, after all. Try emailing the British Museum with photos, they'll record it. Quite useful knowledge - if this ones a fouree, Id bet every mule of this combination is.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
Thanks Ben, I will bear it in mind. Hopefully I will get it next week. Do you think soaking in DW will affect the toning?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts |
Depends what the toning actually is. It should we well adhered to the coin, so D/W shouldnt affect it too severely. However, a full cleaning job, even with D/W, would probably take that off before the green.
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Pillar of the Community
3772 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
Thanks Ben, I will stick with mechanical and see how I get on.
Medieval, fourees are fascinating, often more interesting than the real thing.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4973 Posts |
neat coin pish...that green stuff looks like it will be stuburn...but if it doesn't budge no big deal.
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Replies: 19 / Views: 1,878 |
Posted 01/09/2015 3:34 pm
