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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Probably late to the party on this information, but just found this last night. I think it's the whole book, and usable for free. Hopefully this is the best forum because most of the Large Cent guys are here often. Moderator please move if necessary. http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?...ew=1up;seq=5Edited by edweather
01/19/2015 12:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1660 Posts |
I have an 1847 LC without a 1 and always wanted to see if it's listed. You've stolen the rest of my afternoon with that link!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1566 Posts |
That's it! You rock Ed. It's a little hard to read on my phone but it will work for when I can't get to my print version or when I'm at a coin shop or show. I wonder if they have "Penny Whimsy" by Sheldon?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7375 Posts |
I was just doing a little reading. Some of the differences are so minute. Heck, I'm having a time just trying to orient the coin vertical to the eye. Any tricks?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
767 Posts |
Wow! Thanks ed!  |
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Valued Member
United States
324 Posts |
Sweet---copyright of 1944 and Stack boys published it.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Yes that is the original Newcomb book. Good for the 1816 - 1839 coins but not very useful for the late date pieces unless you are dealing with near MS coins. Even then you'll pull your hair out. Quote:
Sweet---copyright of 1944 and Stack boys published it. The publication of the book was something of a rush job. Stacks had the publication rights for the book with the provision that they publish it before Newcomb's death. The problem was this was during WWII and there was a shortage of materials (The war caused shortage is a LOT of different materials not just metal, sugar shoes etc.). So Stacks decided to wait until after the war ended before publishing it. Then in 1944 Newcomb's health took a serious turn for the worse. Stacks had to rush the book into production or risk losing the rights. There was no time to type set the book so the printing plates were done from photolithogaphy of Newcomb's own handwritten manuscript and a small production run was made lower quality paper to satisfy the terms of the contract and they did get it done shortly before Newcomb died. In I believe 1947 a reprinting was done in larger quantity and quality and there have been two more reprintings since then. Oddly enough though it remained a tradition to continue doing the reprints in Newcomb's handwriting and the book was never typeset. Quote:
I was just doing a little reading. Some of the differences are so minute. Heck, I'm having a time just trying to orient the coin vertical to the eye. Any tricks? On the middle dates (16 - 39) start with the reverse. For each of the four key letters rotate the coin so that letter is vertical and then compare the leaf point below it to determine position. (These positions will NOT always be exact due toe wear, die polishing etc.) Compare these positions to those listed in the key at the beginning of each date listing. I like to start with the S because it seems to vary the most for most years. Eliminate any variety that has an S position that can't possibly be what you have on your coin. Then for those it could be, check the other letter leaf positions. I like to use the F then the C and final the D but it is kind of a toss up on those last two which order to use. This will usually narrow it down to no more than a couple possibilities. Then check the obv keys for those varieties. As with the reveres if you are checking a position of one of the digits in the date compated to features above or below it the number must be held vertical. Likewise if you are checking a star point compared to a dentical hold the coin so the star point being checked is vertical. Once you have narrowed down the possibilities then check the descriptions. Edited by Conder101
01/20/2015 3:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Teriffic information Condor101. Quote:
As with the reveres if you are checking a position of one of the digits in the date compated to features above or below it the number must be held vertical. Likewise if you are checking a star point compared to a dentical hold the coin so the star point being checked is vertical.
That helps a lot, knowing to keep the numbers in the date vertical. I had no idea what was meant by the "coin" being vertical. What about the relation of the tip of the star to the point of the coronet? How should I line up the coin for that one? And I almost forgot, what book would you recommend for the latter Large Cents? Thanks very much for the tips  Edited by edweather
01/20/2015 9:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
711 Posts |
61,000+ search results for 'numismatic'. About time the University of Michigan does something worthwhile. . . .  Edited by BuckeyeCoinGuy
01/20/2015 9:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
711 Posts |
So I do a search and find 61,000+ hits on numismatic. Randomly browse down to a December 1920 issue of The Numismatist from the ANA. Nice article on making pencil rubbings of coins and a method of producing better rubbings. And we worry about cleaned coins. . . Realized auction prices: 1856 Flying Eagle VG $8.00 1792 Half Disme F $27.50 1873 2 Cent Piece Proof $2.55 Edited by BuckeyeCoinGuy
01/20/2015 9:51 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1566 Posts |
Hey don't be dissin' U of M. There are Michiganders on the forum  Edited by Celticsoul
01/21/2015 07:04 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
What about the relation of the tip of the star to the point of the coronet? How should I line up the coin for that one?
The star should be vertical with an imaginary line running through the star from the point pointing at the denticals through the center of the star and out through the point pointing toward the tip of the coronet. After a bit you will find that you can imagine the line without having to orient the star vertically. Quote:
And I almost forgot, what book would you recommend for the latter Large Cents? For the late dates you have two possibilities. Attribution Guide for United States Large Cents 1840 - 1857 by J R Grellman and there is a two volume book on 1816 - 1857 by William Noyes. I have to admit I don't have the Noyes book and have never had a chance to try using it so I don't know how good it is. The Grellman book has been the standard reference for the series since the 1980's and is the one most people use. There have been three editions of the book. It is easier than the Newcomb book but I warn you it still is NOT an easy book for a beginner to use. The problem with the late dates was that the by that time all the dies were fully hubbed and the only differences between the dies were from the placement of the date punch, lines left on the dies during the finishing/polishing process, and die cracks/cuds and sometimes areas of roughness that develop as the dies wear. The date area under the bust isn't that large compared to the date punch so it doesn't move around a whole lot. The lines, points etc from the die finishing are often very small and faint and tend to disappear quickly as either the die or the coin wears. These features are so small and faint that they do not show up in photos so the book uses line drawing to indicate them. If you are working with coins below VF it can often be impossible to completely attribute them, the best you might be able to do is narrow it down to a few possibilities from the date position. The Grellman book is available (autographed if desired) from the author at a cost of $100. Address available on request. But you might be able to find a used copy on ebay. I only found one copy on abebook and they wanted $250 for a second edition. second edition for $250, third edition for $100? No Brainer. One thing I should mention about the Noyes book, for some reason he did NOT split the two volumes at the dividing point between the middle and late dates so if you want the late date you still have to buy both volumes of the book. And with each volume costing around $100 it is significanly ore expensive than Grellman. The Noyes books are only available from Numismatic literature dealer Charlie Davis (Numislit on ebay sometimes he lists copies there as well) Noyes books are United States Large Cents 1816 - 1845 and United States Large Cents 1846 - 1857. I haven't found a used copy of either on the online used book sellers. There are currently no copies of any of these three books on ebay. Edited by Conder101
01/21/2015 12:48 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
For the Middle Date Large Cents I recommend John D. Wright's book "The Cent" (I just sold my last spare copy here on CCF. It is regularly available for around $100-125 new. I still have a copy of the Grellman/Reivers book available PM if you are interested in a copy. I just purchased the last 4 volumes of Noye's books, 1783-1794, 1797-1799, and the Late date volumes, from Kolbe & Fanning's latest auction, can't wait for them to arrive, I just paid my invoice today, so it will be a week or so before they actually arrive in my hands.
I posted the Newcomb book link above last year, unfortunately it is not a downloadable link unless you are a Haith trust member, which I am not.
I also have Red Henry's excellent Middle Date finder PDF if anyone would like a copy, PM me and I can set up a way for you to get a copy. It is a really good quick start guide to attributing those middle dates.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1566 Posts |
Dang westcoin I was considering buying that "The Cent" book!Now I'll have to see if I can get it through EAC.  Edited by Celticsoul
01/21/2015 2:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
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Dang westcoin I was considering buying that "The Cent" book! Gotta keep an eye on the CCF sale page!  I do have the EAC grading guide that went unsold, might have to relist it, it was up for less than the EAC charges and mine is new in shrink wrap, I'll repost it tonight. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Quote:
The star should be vertical with an imaginary line running through the star from the point pointing at the denticals through the center of the star and out through the point pointing toward the tip of the coronet. Thanks, great instructions. I'll definitely use it. Quote:
For the late dates you have two possibilities. Attribution Guide for United States Large Cents 1840 - 1857 by J R Grellman and there is a two volume book on 1816 - 1857 by William Noyes. Thanks again. Quote:
If you are working with coins below VF it can often be impossible to completely attribute them, Note to self: VF or above for these. |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 4,473 |
Posted 01/19/2015 2:24 pm
