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Replies: 30 / Views: 4,854 |
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Valued Member
Canada
495 Posts |
This counterfeit virus is going to infect the numismatic world in a huge negative way if it keeps getting better and stronger e.g PCGS missing them and ebay lack of controls. A new business is dawning that will make someone a lot of money if they can offer a soundproof way to thwart this threat. Black Cabinet and a few others are on the right track keep up the good work and may the force be with you.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts |
What we need are slab slabs. If you aren't sure about the authenticity of your slabs, leave them to our experts who will encapsulate them for you for that extra protection.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1211 Posts |
It is called education and experience.
I am currently working on a small presentation for my coin club to explain the diagnostics of a few counterfeits.
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts |
Jerseyben; a presentation like that would be most educational for many of us. Will it be a powerpoint or in any other digital format, please post it here if you want.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
711 Posts |
I write plastic formulas for a living.
I have a product that I want to flag chemically as mine that is not identifiable once I ship it.
I add a useless out of place chemical in the formula that I can pick up if a warranty issue were to come up (so many warranty claims for competitor's products anymore. . . ).
If I were PCGS, I would come up with a custom blend and then vary the blend annually. There isn't a plastic part though I can't replicate exactly with a big enough budget. So you vary the blend annually. Maybe even publish the cycle and sell a home tester.
Perhaps something that would only show up in UV light.
They make a pigment you can put in plastics that is invisible / clear and then becomes visible when hit with a certain laser frequency.
All kinds of ways to do this.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4415 Posts |
Cigarettes and other products have warning labels. ebay should be required to have BIG pop-ups or some other warning whenever someone places a bid, so it's required that they double-click after a few seconds' pause. The warning would mention common scams, warning signs, and redirect potential bidders to informative blogs, if they so choose, before registering their bid. Even though I'd not like this, it might make folks think .... hopefully!
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
The only effective weapon against counterfeiting is education. No use attempting to stop it if people are willing to be taken; somebody will always be willing to fill the hole. Depending on a third party to guarantee the coin in your hand is genuine is not only a fool's mission but numismatically useless, leaving you no enjoyment save bragging rights. TPG's are cool but you're supposed to not need them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5838 Posts |
I've been seeing a lot of examples lately here of counterfeit PCGS slabs that have the correct certification number, which really scares me. I'm wondering, though, whether PCGS slabs tend to get counterfeited more often than, say, NGC or ANACS slabs (presumably because PCGS slabs are usually considered to be more valuable)? If so, are we actually better off buying coins in NGC or ANACS slabs, just to be on the safe side? Or do those slabs get counterfeited just as much?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1796 Posts |
Thanks macdon!
As jerseyben and SsuperDdave said, education is always the true key. Certification has really become a "shortcut" crutch for that, as it were, trying to package the expertise of others in a manner that can be bought or sold sight unseen.
epikur - Over the next month or so, there should be some things like that up on the CCF Youtube channel (if all goes well).
BuckeyeCoinGuy - That's an interesting proposal, but I do see two problems: one that can be overcome, and one that cannot. The one that can is a matter of choosing an appropriate inert additive that can be tested for, as you don't want something in the plastic that will damage the coins. The one that cannot be overcome is merely the amount of time before the counterfeiters catch on and make plastic that tests properly. Any fix like this is a temporary fix.
As part of my own contribution to temporary fixes (albeit one that I hope has a bit more staying power) I'm presently cooking something up with The Black Cabinet that will significantly help slabbed coins that works with the Certification Shield system I've already put together. Once I get the patent process underway, I can talk more about it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1796 Posts |
barryg - PCGS fake slabs make up over 95% of the fake slabs on the market because they're the "most trusted" TPG (the problem with being #1) and the design of their slabs seems to be the least complex to fake.
Edited by SteveCaruso 02/05/2015 11:36 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5393 Posts |
Ssuperdave said it right. Educate yourself. Buy numismatic books and read them, attend a numismatic seminar whenever you can, never be afraid to ask a silly question (there are none). Seek out a mentor or at least ask for second opinions if you are unsure of what you are doing. Numismatics can be rewarding but there is a price for the education. How expensive you want that education is up to you! Remember when it comes to coins "Foolish collectors rush in where Numismatists fear to tread". If you want the hobby to be a lifetime of enjoyment, don't be a foolish collector , become a numismatist!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2815 Posts |
Quote:barryg - PCGS fake slabs make up over 95% of the fake slabs on the market because they're the "most trusted" TPG (the problem with being #1) and the design of their slabs seems to be the least complex to fake. Also, PCGS does not photograph their encapsulated coins during the grading process for inclusion on their website (cert verification). NGC does this with every coin they grade, although sometimes there isn't a photo for a particular coin. This may also account for the overwhelming majority of fake slabs being the PCGS brand. There is no way to compare a supposed fake slab to the real one, which could be easily accessible on their site. PCGS really needs to start doing this. It wouldn't stop the process all by itself, but it would help.
Edited by Darth Morgan 02/05/2015 1:57 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1796 Posts |
Aye it certainly would help. When I have time and can trace a coin's pedigree to, say, an auction where there are photos of the original coin, I try and post those pictures on its profile for comparison. With one of the last 1916-D Merc fakes I posted, the original is nicely toned with a CAC sticker, where the counterfeit is blast white with none.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5838 Posts |
Yes, that's one things I really like about buying NGC slabbed coins. Whenever possible, I always verify that the coin I'm buying matches the image on the NGC site.
Sadly, for some unknown reason, the hotel where they have the big coin show I attend every year has no coverage for my iPhone (unless I want to rent a room and get the WiFi password)...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
I'm going to go out on a limb here. Educating yourself about coins is absolutely the best way to keep from getting burned. However, with the level of sophistication of some of today's counterfeits the level of education required is going beyond what the average hobbyist might be willing to learn. I'm not a coin master but I'm also a good ways away from being a novice. I don't mind admitting there are fakes out there that are good enough to fool me & I know I'm not alone. I've read numismatic articles over the last few years where high level fakes were taken around coin shows & shown to dealers who could not identify them as fakes.
I don't have any idea what a solution to this problem might be....or even if there is one. As an antique dealer I do know that the market for some things that were heavily faked has pretty much dried up. Hobbies are supposed to be fun & new collectors got turned off by the amount of eductaion required to protect themselves.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
At the moment the fakers don't have a handle on barcodes - it's an easy telltale for many of them. There's that at least. I can't imagine the TPG's not imaging every submission in sufficient detail to optically differentiate the coin from all but a perfect fake. The technology is easy and relatively cheap, and off the top of my head I can see an easy 300 coins per hour from one person with the right rig. There's no reason for them not to.
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Replies: 30 / Views: 4,854 |