| Author |
 Replies: 85 / Views: 13,112 |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
This is why I like PCGS.. as they will guarantee their grade.... but also... with respect to ICCS... I don't think there was a grade slide... many who have received these coins have said they're spectacular...
Furthermore we know that at best a red/brown penny will grade 64... those same pennies that are 64 R/B will be good candidates for 65's in PCGS as they grade a bit differently..
I have a good feeling that the prices realized in this past auction are because the u.s. dollar being strong and there is a VERY good chance many of these coins will certainly upgrade into other holders.
So 6 MS 64's may trend at 400 a piece and the person buys the lot for 1800.. with a good chance that a few will regrade to 65 and 900 a piece... to me.. that would be a no brainer!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
541 Posts |
the idea of Grade creep is very interesting as it applies to these spectacular coins and other certifiable collectibles such as comics...its obviously all about the money...the big money comes with certification..and when a collection like this sells for 6 million ..the cost of certification pay for themselves hundreds of times over....if sothebys sells your painting you know it is going to be certified by experts....so grade creep is an indication of how big the rare coin industry is becoming...remember...you can always take it out of the holder!...just wear gloves when you pass it around the kitchen table
Edited by Cassidy77
02/28/2015 7:15 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
Having had the opportunity to examine the coins from the sale, what is remarkable is not the ICCS grades of the coins whether they are 64 65 66 or 67 , but rather the freshness or the newness in other words THE LOOK. Just very different to what we have seen in the market place for the past twenty or so years. Granted there are lots of the pieces that are not 100 per cent red or spot free, but the appeal is sure there. I am reasonably sure that the provenance will add a cache to the coins and maybe even added value, time will tell. There are lots of collectors out there who do NOT collect large cents or tokens but will say "what the heck I want at least one coin or piece from that storied sale". In Canadian numismatic circles it will be talked about for a very long time and those of us who were lucky to have attended in person will never forget it. I for one am still in awe over a 1915 Large cent going for almost ten thousand dollars !. Obviously there was more than a few bidders who got it to that level. We have already sold quite a few LANDON pieces on and off of ebay and there is strong interest. The silver coins from the sale were spectacular and could turn out to be real bargains to the original auction buyers. Remember these were being sold at 230 -345 AM and the room was not as full as at the beginning of the night. Personally it is my opinion that this recent sale will do the Canadian market a lot of good in that it has and continues to create new interest in Canadian numismatics. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
541 Posts |
having just completed a cursory estimate of the number of Landon ICCS certified large Cents in the MS 63 to 67 range I can say there are approx 966 new ICCS large cents released as follows::MS63-236 MS64-236 MS65-322 MS66-160 MS67-12....My 2013 ICCS Population report says there are already at least 10,000 coins in these grades...So it is safe to say that the population has been increased by about 10% with the Landon Collection..The MS66 population has increased from 65 to 225 and the MS67 population now has 12 units. In the MS60-62 range there are approx 400 more coins released which may not have been certified. I hope this info is of interest to the members...
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
541 Posts |
a cursory tally of the NGC population of Large Cents shows that in the grades from MS60 to MS67 there are approx 2210 units.....in MS66 there are 38 and in MS 67 there are 3..I dont have the figures for PCGS but I would imagine they are higher overall. So in the final analysis the Landon release has a large effect on the ICCS population by about 9% increase and the quality of the collection can be judged by the fact that ICCS has certified many more MS66 examples and MS67 examples than the other major grading companies put together..This fact alone should give the Landon Large Cent population credence to its special pedigree designation on the ICCS flips. If anyone has access to the PCGS info that would be interesting and give the total accurate picture..my figures are fairly accurate but not exact.....
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
Landon coins aside, there has been a slight degree of grade creep fom ICCS over the years.
This however is much better than PCGS, whose grading standards have done an extreme 'roller coaster' move from strict to easy to strict again.
Over the entire life span of both ICCS and PCGS and for collectors who have submitted and purchased coins from both respective companies, I would be shocked if one chose PCGS over ICCS for being the more consistent grading company.
Edited by doubleeagle59
03/02/2015 1:41 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
The biggest difference between PCGS and ICCS is not the strict or less strict grading (they're not too far off), but the thousands of damaged/cleaned coins that ICCS has encapsulated with no comments, that would not make it past the "PCGS GENUINE" grading. Buying an ICCS coin is like playing Russian Roulette. There is a 10-20% chance you will get a bullet in your wallet (i.e. a cleaned/damaged coin that is worth up to 70% less than what it was bought for). I've examined dozens of these in hand. I am convinced there are dealers who take cleaned coins, try to tone them (often hilariously very badly), knowing that ICCS will grade them as "undamaged". A few of my examples include: http://www.icollector.com/1880H-25-...40_i20680956http://www.icollector.com/1875H-5-L...er_i15660811http://www.icollector.com/1898-Larg...ed_i15442759PCGS is infinitely more respectable and trustworthy, which is why the most valuable Canadian coins have been cut out of ICCS flips and regraded with PCGS. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
You are playing with fire if you. Cannot grade yourself and are buying TPG graded coins in holders. Been said a million times buy the coin not the holder. IMHO Pcgs can't grade to save their souls, especially when it comes to Canadian Australian and British coins. also remember that ICCS only grades coins on a technical grading scale. you cannot compare the US and Canadian services. like comparing lemons to pears. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
Some are not as obvious through the two layers of plastic. In fact, some are so convincing, only when they come back from PCGS rejected, do you find out you've been "had".
The flagship of Canadian coin grading, really is "buyer beware".
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
In the very early years, PCGS was notorious for grading heavily toned Vicky and Edward coins as ms63 to ms65, when in fact, under the toning, the coins were marked up pretty bad and ICCS would grade them as au50 to au58.
I've had and have seen many, many examples of this.
And that's why even today, Brian is 'on his toes'when it comes to cross grading a heavily toned PCGS coin in to an ICCS holder.
Edited by doubleeagle59
03/02/2015 5:59 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
Does anyone have a historical count of the grading population? eg. in 1998 Coin YYYY has X MS-65's, in 1999 Coin YYYY has X MS-65's, in 2000 etc... If yes, you could run some tests to see if the distribution of coins is changing. I am not sure if you would get anything that is scientifically valid, but there might be something there. Best bet would be to find 30 commonly graded coins with 10+ years of history. If anyone has the data, I will run the numbers.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
541 Posts |
i just received my second Landon Large cent..a 1888 ICCS MS 64 RED...this coin has some problems with the carbon deposits on part of the obverse but the reverse is very nice..its listed in the Landon auction Catalogue as a 90% red coin...personally I'm glad its certified because I would have a tough time grading this coin and I'm sure 3 persons wouldnt agree on its grade..it could be anywhere from 63red,63rb to 64 rb to 65 rb, to ms65rd..Certified coins save a lot of arguments and this is why it has been developed ....as the technology developed certification has become easier and the holders provide a great long term protection and storage vehicle. This Landon cent has great luster and I agree with the grade although I might be tempted to send it to NGC for conservation but I'm not sure they would recognize the Landon pedigree...although I think they probably will.....
Edited by Cassidy77
03/03/2015 11:44 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Quote:
..this coin has some problems with the carbon deposits on part of the obverse... Is there any way to safely protect the original luster on a high grade cent,..and also safely remove the carbon spots ? |
|
Valued Member
Canada
495 Posts |
Interesting comments I have been feedback from a few of the dealers I know who seem to be wary of what all of this fallout will mean in next year or so. I'mnot all that familiar with the good vs bad days but the coins I got from the sale are most welcome on my shelf and maybe someday before I take the big trip there may be another "Landon type hoard" reveal itself. I'mwaiting to see how Trends deal with it.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
The carbon spots can be dealt with safely in a few cases. One must be extremely skilled to attempt it. There is a reason that NCS came along, if the coin was sent to NCS they would let you know the cost and if it would improve the coin.
|
| |
Replies: 85 / Views: 13,112 |
First Page
Posted 02/28/2015 7:13 pm
