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Early State Of 1923-D VAM-1Bq Die Break Above Vs

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United States
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 Posted 03/04/2015  07:56 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add StrikeOut to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have an early die state of 1BQ
http://www.vamworld.com/1923-D+VAM-1BQ

Was just curious at what point it becomes this VAM, and at what point it's just a 23-D Peace with a few die cracks.

Just saw it late last night, so no pics. It's a cleaned high AU, maybe weakly struck MS. Obv has some pastel toning kind of target toned. The reverse is all over darker toning making it hard to see cracks.

OBV
* Above the TRVST it has the same die crack, but the break has not formed yet.

* In the 2nd picture, it does NOT have the crack through the "19" yet, but does have the one through the front of the neck.

On Rev
* It does not have the crack through Peace yet

* It does have the crack from the "N" in United through "S" in States as shown.

* The last picture, I think the double crack is in the "U" but the toning makes it hard to tell.

Just curious if anyone studies the die states or progression of these enough to make this desirable to someone. I'll try to get pics tonight if it will help.
Edited by StrikeOut
03/04/2015 07:57 am
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2015  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A common misconception is that a Morgan or Peace dollar is a VAM due to certain features. All Morgan and Peace dollars are Vams. A VAM is the catalog of the die pair used to strike the coin. Many are nondescript, but a few are downright amazing. The dies go through changes throughout their life cycle ... deterioration, clashing, polishing, repair, etc. It's the call of Mr. Van Allen whether the changes warrant a suffix change in the catalog number. There's a sticky note attached to this section that explains this and other interesting facts about Vams. Welcome to the insanity.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2015  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Every coin struck by those two dies is VAM-1BQ whether there's a die crack on them or not. It's likely, though, that it will end up combined with some other VAM(s) in the future, because there are certainly uncracked examples and it's possible one of those has already been designated as a VAM.

There are thousands of VAMs and more thousands to be found. This effort might he at the halfway point.
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United States
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 Posted 03/04/2015  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add StrikeOut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here she is.

Early-State-Of-1923-D-VAM-1Bq-Die-Break-Above-Vs
Early-State-Of-1923-D-VAM-1Bq-Die-Break-Above-Vs

Early-State-Of-1923-D-VAM-1Bq-Die-Break-Above-Vs

Early-State-Of-1923-D-VAM-1Bq-Die-Break-Above-Vs

Early-State-Of-1923-D-VAM-1Bq-Die-Break-Above-Vs

I can't get good shots of the crack on the REV due to the toning, but it's there.
Early-State-Of-1923-D-VAM-1Bq-Die-Break-Above-Vs

So... I've had plenty of VAMs in the past, but 8 or so years ago when they sold well. What does a cleaned R6 go for these days?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2015  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice images. They paint a clear picture.

Leroy assigns R ratings based as much on feel as anything, having held more Morgans than anyone else, probably ever. It's going to be a very long time before empirical data backs up estimates on most VAMs. Only a very small percentage of known VAMs (call it 5000) carry additional value. There are too few specializing, relatively speaking, to pressurize the more common varieties.

It'll cost you a quarter of a million dollars to assemble a grouping of VAMs which would be considered "substantial." Call it half the known total, in Mint State. That's a daunting goal, and it would be a ton of work on the collector's part because few shortcuts exist.

I can't imagine anything more than subsets of VAMs ever being popular. It's too big a job. That's why the bigger names in VAMming are authoring lists - they make subset collecting desirable.

Edit to add: I can see 1BQ - or whatever it becomes - getting on a list. The cracking is substantial even for a Peace dollar.
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