| Author |
 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,901 |
|
|
Valued Member
United States
228 Posts |
This coin, from an inherited collection, recently returned from grading with a disappointing Details grade, OBV Scratched. I guess it was expected though. Before grading, I met with two experts who said the coin was scratched. I don't have the coin in hand right now, so this is the best I can do for pics:   The scratch looks pretty evident from that obverse pic. At my sister's request, I've been selling some coins, and this is one of the coins I'd consider selling. It doesn't really fit in with the rest of the collection I'm planning to keep, and the Details grade is a bit discouraging. It looks like, even with this issue, the coin has considerable value. It's just amazing to me how much lower the value is due to that one scratch. And being inexperienced with coins, I have some doubts and questions. I've read that a problem coin is just a problem coin, but is a scratch like this really unfixable? Can someone explain why that is? If an expert can repair a Van Gogh or the Sistine Chapel, why not a coin? Is it just that the idea of restoration is viewed differently in numismatics than in other areas? Is it possible, ten years from now, for it to be an accepted practice to repair scratched coins? If so, selling this coin now could be a big mistake. I will have sold a coin today that would be worth much more in the near future. Can someone explain why this can't happen or is very unlikely to happen? Thanks for the help with my probably naive questions and concerns! Edited by Phaedrus29
03/15/2015 2:29 pm
|
|
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
This is a Draped Bust Half Eagle, not a Capped Bust. I'll try to answer a couple of your questions.
I've read that a problem coin is just a problem coin, but is a scratch like this really unfixable?
The scratch could likely be repaired so as to be unnoticeable except to experts.
Is it just that the idea of restoration is viewed differently in numismatics than in other areas?
Correct. Instead of "Scratched" it would then be "Repaired" and that is generally considered to be a worse issue.
Is it possible, ten years from now, for it to be an accepted practice to repair scratched coins?
Sure, anything is possible but the chances are about equal to winning the Powerball lottery.
Can someone explain why this can't happen or is very unlikely to happen?
In numismatics original condition is everything to high end collectors. An 1863 Colt Single Action Army is worth $20k in pristine, original condition and $2k in damaged and repaired condition. The principle is the same. That won't change.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
If it were mine, I would break it out of the slab and get it graded by CCF members with the instruction to grade it as if the scratch did not exist.
Retain these pictures for the record, and post them along with a set of new pictures out of the slab at the start of a new thread, asking us to grade it for you.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
If they can fix holed coins, I am pretty sure they can fix that scratch. This sort of practice is frowned upon by the vast majority of collectors since it is typically done by people with the intent to deceive.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3843 Posts |
If you are planning on selling, keep it in the details grade holder since potential buyers will at least know that it is authentic.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
228 Posts |
Quote:
The scratch could likely be repaired so as to be unnoticeable except to experts. OK, so it's not likely that it could be repaired and then graded as non-details by one of the top TPG's? Quote:
Instead of "Scratched" it would then be "Repaired" and that is generally considered to be a worse issue. Is there a generally agreed upon ranking of the details grades...from least bad to worst? I tried searching but couldn't find this. Quote:
If it were mine, I would break it out of the slab and get it graded by CCF members with the instruction to grade it as if the scratch did not exist. I can certainly try to take some high quality shots when I have the coin in hand, although I'm reluctant to crack it out. What would be the purpose here...just to see how high within UNC it would grade if not for the scratch? Quote:
If they can fix holed coins, I am pretty sure they can fix that scratch. This sort of practice is frowned upon by the vast majority of collectors since it is typically done by people with the intent to deceive. I didn't really have deception in mind. I'm sure that some of these coins have been fixed in the past, perhaps a long time ago, in such a way that is deemed acceptable by TPG's today. So I'm just wondering if the potential is there for the coin to be fixed in such a way as to grade non-details...not really mistakenly but just to be fixed in an acceptable manner. If I do go ahead and sell the coin at a fraction of its non-details value, I just want to make sure I'm making a smart decision. I'm just wondering whether a knowledgeable numismatist, who decided to sell this coin, would sell it in its current state...or whether that's somehow a novice mistake. |
|
Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
Even with the scratch, this is an extremely valuable coin.
If it were mine, I'd crack it out, send to PCGS, then Heritage.
swcoin.ecrater.com
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1566 Posts |
Repairing things like scratches is generally known as "tooling" and is far less desirable then leaving the coin as is. I'm willing to bet that you Father bought the coin knowing that it was scratched and got it for a reasonable price. Sell the coin as is instead of trying to sell it as something that it isn't. Another collector, like your Father will be willing to buy such a beautiful coin despite the damage.
|
|
Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
If it's repaired so cleanly as to completely deceive a TPG - and don't forget how badly they got burned by gold doctors a few years ago - then it's not repaired. I don't know if a repair that good is possible in the days of megapixel digicams and XRF analysis. Maybe. Any found repair will be noted and cause for a Details grade, be it repaired last week or 150 years ago. Once in a Details slab, the value of the coin is at the mercy of each individual collector's choice subject to no system at all save that the coins which look closer to "good" sell for more. But such is the importance of originality that a repair *or* a sctratch devalues the coin by half in some cases. Since this was a Mint State coin, the loss is probably far greater depending on the grade it would have made without the scratch. But not all cases, and more overexuberant bidders bid up Details coins than they do good ones. It's really tough to get a feel for prices. |
|
Valued Member
United States
228 Posts |
Quote:
If it were mine, I'd crack it out, send to PCGS, then Heritage. This coin was actually just sent through Heritage to NGC for grading. I'm trying to decide whether consigning it to Heritage in its current slab is a smart decision...and wanted to check if there are other "non-illicit" options I should consider. Why do you suggest cracking it and sending it to PCGS instead...in the hopes that it would grade non-details, or just because of a PCGS premium over NGC? Quote:
don't forget how badly they got burned by gold doctors a few years ago What happened? I'm absolutely new to coins since I joined CCF a couple months ago. Edited by Phaedrus29
03/15/2015 4:15 pm
|
|
Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
What happened? I'm absolutely new to coins since I joined CCF a couple months ago In a nutshell, for a few years a few really good gold doctors were carefully improving the appearance of high-end gold coins and getting away with it. Then, everything imaginable hit the fan simultaneously. For me as a numismatist, it was kinda like being an astronomer getting to observe a supernova.  I may be wrong but I think the cracking advice is about the PCGS Premium, which would benefit many of your coins. Perhaps not this one; I'd be interested in an expert's opinion of the buying demographic for this coin. I suspect they've evolved past that. |
|
Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
Quote:
This coin was actually just sent through Heritage to NGC for grading. Ah, ok. Then I'd leave it and Heritage it that way. A PCGS holder will generally command a slight premium (large enough for me to cross it) when it comes to the early classsic gold and copper in grades such as this - damaged or not. swcoin.ecrater.com
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
I didn't mean to imply that you had such intentions only that some other people might. I'm sorry.
One way a coin with a similar problem would have been fixed in the past that would be acceptable today would be to enter circulation. That won't be happening to a coin of this magnitude. Personally, I would leave the coin as is but having the coin in a PCGS holder would be something that I would consider.
|
| |
Replies: 12 / Views: 1,901 |
|
Posted 03/15/2015 12:50 am
