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Why Are Walkers Usually Toned Darker Than Other Coins?

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Bertensgrad's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2015  01:44 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Bertensgrad to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was wondering why circulated Walking Liberty halves are often toned much more heavily then other US halves. There are some beautiful almost black walkers out there but I have never seen a Franklin toned darkly. I also find that a lot of the seated and Barber halves are usually not as dark.

Is this because walkers have higher relief that shows toning off more. Or is it just a relic of franklins not being old enough and the older halves being more likely to be dipped in the past? Or is it just that the walkers having a harder life during circulation because they were more of a workhorse during that time then later and earlier halves.

The only other coins I noticed this with have been with Mercury dimes and some old silver English coins from the 1850's my dad has.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2015  08:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My theory is that the Mint changed washing procedures and chemicals over differing time periods, causing toning to progress at different weights. Seated stuff seems to tone similarly to me, and rainbow Walkers seem to color with greater saturation than other issues.

I've done nothing resembling research on this, though, so it's pure speculation on my part.
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muddler's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2015  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add muddler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that you mention it I do have some really toned walkers.

Why-Are-Walkers-Usually-Toned-Darker-Than-Other-Coins?
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Cascade's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2015  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A little off topic but I keep thinking a pirate wrote the title

Great question though maybe it has something to do with the oils/grease the planchets were coated in before striking?
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Bertensgrad's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2015  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bertensgrad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know haha not sure if I'm able to change the title. I'm used to a iPad and I used a iPhone to post this.

I just noticed it after collecting walkers from junk silver trays and looking over the ones I bought as a boy. I definitely prefer the dark toned ones then and now. It gives almost a cameo appearance from the toning.

I also noticed that Mercury dimes also get the same dark toning on a minority of pieces. I haven't seen it on quarters from that period though. A darkly toned walker though is extremely common.
Edited by Bertensgrad
03/16/2015 3:46 pm
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coinsearcher83's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2015  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsearcher83 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps its because Walkers have an intricate design, with the high points being relatively thin and focused, so the toning/grime can easier stay on the lower-relief portions of the field, which take up relatively more space than the Barbers or Seated Liberty halves. Barbers and Seateds have relatively flat designs, which, with continuous wear, would make the coin look lighter over a larger area than the Walkers. Even the fields for these coins are relatively flat and easier to wear than those of the Walkers.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2015  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I liked the title, too, but it was more polite to fix it.
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SHAFTA9a's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2015  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice one muddler...

Yes.. Walking Liberty half dollars were used lots in the years that they were minted and I believe that is why they are toned and most are worn.
.50 cents was a lot of money back then.
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Sap's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2015  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is this because walkers have higher relief that shows toning off more... The only other coins I noticed this with have been with Mercury dimes and some old silver English coins from the 1850's my dad has.



Perhaps its because Walkers have an intricate design, with the high points being relatively thin and focused, so the toning/grime can easier stay on the lower-relief portions of the field, which take up relatively more space than the Barbers or Seated Liberty halves. Barbers and Seateds have relatively flat designs, which, with continuous wear, would make the coin look lighter over a larger area than the Walkers. Even the fields for these coins are relatively flat and easier to wear than those of the Walkers.

This. As a general rule, coins with high-relief "intricate" designs, such as Walker halves, Mercury dimes or British 19th century coins, have nicer toning than other coins. High rims, or a circular feature on the coin that acts like a high rim, seems to be a major factor. Another design I have seen this same effect with is French pre-WWI silver. The fact that this effect occurs at different times in different countries tells me it is a property of the coins in question, rather than an alteration of mint processes, that is the primary cause.

I assume it's because such coins have a lot more deep crevices within which the moisture and chemicals which cause toning to form can reside in peace and do their work without being worn away. There is, of course, another theory that has more to do with human nature than the laws of physics: that coins with low relief/large empty fields/no rims tend to tone in an "uglier" fashion and are therefore more likely to attract the attention of ignorant-but-well-meaning coin custodians armed with bottles of silver polish, whereas these same people might look at an equally-heavily-tarnished walker and say, "Ooh, that looks pretty, I'll leave that one alone".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Bertensgrad's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2015  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bertensgrad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All good answers so far haha. I just love coins darkly toned liked that. I have a circulated set of mercs and I just started walkers. I look for well toned dark coins for my albums. I just don't care for them lightly toned or in ms condition. Atleast my tastes make it easier on my wallet.
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 Posted 03/17/2015  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a collection of walkers except for the 1921 and 21-D. Almost all before 1920 that I have are pretty worn. Good condition is being able to read the date and the motto. The early walkers look thin even when you can read it all. Unless they were in a collection for almost 100 years they got used just like Liberty Standing quarters took a beating. I could probably buy a 1921 in good condition for $150-200 but I am taking a breath before I finish the collection. I see some 1938-D's in EF condition going for pretty low prices. Many of my Walkers are dark like they got grease ingrained in them. It is a beautiful design. Making the silver bullion coin a Walker front was a good idea. I bought one just to look at Walking Liberty.
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acloco's Avatar
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 Posted 03/18/2015  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could be the source for the silver round supplier?
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Bertensgrad's Avatar
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 Posted 03/18/2015  12:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bertensgrad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see it a lot from shop to shop in indiana so I think the design lends it to it. Though recently got one at scrap where even the non worn letters were heavily toned or cover with something black
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Night-Hawk's Avatar
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 Posted 03/18/2015  02:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Night-Hawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tough to beat those old original Walkers..

(PCGS VG08)
Why-Are-Walkers-Usually-Toned-Darker-Than-Other-Coins?
Edited by Night-Hawk
03/18/2015 10:26 am
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 Posted 03/18/2015  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nighthawk

What condition would you say your Walker is in for the 1921-D? I bet it would fetch a nice price. Since you can see the skirt lines would it be in Fine condition or better? If I could put one on law a way that would be good but not happening.
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Night-Hawk's Avatar
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 Posted 03/18/2015  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Night-Hawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS gave that 21-D VG08 and I paid $275. for it.

I think if you were patient you could find one better for that price.
Make sure you look for nice rims and good original color.

Note the minor rim bumps on the reverse above, PCGS is very forgiving on these older tough ones (IMHO).
Edited by Night-Hawk
03/18/2015 10:34 am
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