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 Replies: 33 / Views: 10,750 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
500 Posts |
I was curious if they publish any %'s like PCGS publishes that 42% of the coins submitted for cross-over are successful ( but dealers tell me that is inflated because they count moderns that they just "rubber stamp" cross - and that the actual % for non-moderns is around 12% ). Anyway, I couldn't find anything like that - just pop reports which ( without submittal #s ) don't tell you what % qualify. But there is an article from 2010 on their site saying that at that point they had stickered 68,000 out of 144,000 submittals roughly. So about 47%. No idea if that % has held going forward but it is the only one I could muster up. I also found some mention of their standards I found interesting. It said that for many years dealers and sophisticated collectors had used a grading scale for slabbed coins. "A" being hi-end, "B" being solid ( whatever that means ) and "C" being low-end. So they took that informal scale and "bean" anything they deem A or B. But my question then is what % do they THINK coins fall under A,B,C respectively? Is it a Bell curve? I doubt it is equal 33.33% each. Their 2010 numbers MIGHT indicate that 47% fall in the A or B and 53% in C? Though that is likely skewed a bit by less appealing coins being less likely to be submitted to them - I'd guess. Why not give gold beans to As and green beans to Bs and that way it would be easier to tell? I didn't do a full analysis but it appears roughly 4%-5% are gold beaned and 95%-96% green. But I don't think they are saying the distribution is roughly 2%,45%,53% are they? I also find it a bit weird that some grades I've analyzed have virtually EVERY slab green beaned. Some claim that only the TOP10% of the grade get cac-ed or that a green sticker means the coin is "superior" for the grade. Even if you say that the majority of coins sent to them are less likely to be a C, 47% sounds pretty high to me. And if every slab for a grade is cac-ed how can they all be hi-end for the grade? That makes no sense to me. IMO that smacks of it all being a bunch of BS. Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance!  Edited by BuffalosRock
04/07/2015 1:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2373 Posts |
Seems logical that only the better quality coins would be submitted to CAC in the first place. I'm sure that the initial opening had loads of coins that were not worthy. Now that time has passed and the novelty is gone submitals would be at the better quality level IMO. To each his own but I never was a big fan of the whole idea. nlp
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
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Why not give gold beans to As and green beans to Bs and that way it would be easier to tell? I didn't do a full analysis but it appears roughly 4%-5% are gold beaned and 95%-96% green. But I don't think they are saying the distribution is roughly 2%,45%,53% are they?
CAC isn't a grader. They're dealers. Their purpose is to sticker the slabs which the TPG's got right so they can sell them to their fellow dealers sight-unseen. It's that simple, and I'm unsurprised that more than half don't sticker even when the better coins are the ones which get submitted to them. The TPG's have been that bad. Gold is for the ones which exceed even their standards for the grade. A 65 with a Gold bean is a 66, essentially, or worth 66 money. Anything you and I do about CAC stickers at retail has nothing to do with them, or their intent. They're paying CAC wholesale money for stickered coins; it's not like a Bean inflates their margin. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1839 Posts |
The problem with looking for a percentage of successful CAC approvals is that CAC doesn't charge anything if it doesn't bean. And for this reason many people are likely submitting coins that probably shouldn't be sent in the hopes that they might sticker since there is no financial risk to do so. CAC only charges you for the coins that do bean. On the other hand many other collectors and dealers only bother to send in coins they feel have a high likelihood of passing. And in that situation the percentage that bean will of course be at a much higher rate. For example I just sent in 15 coins and 11 of them beaned. Of the 4 that didn't bean, 2 didn't suprise me that much but the other 2 did suprise me a bit.
Until CAC decides to start charging a fee for all the coins that are submitted (the way PCGS and NGC charge for grading) any kind of statistics that would show the percentages of successful submissions wouldn't be very useful.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
CAC charges all dealers the full fee whether the coin passes or not and you can be sure most of their submissions are from dealers. Only collectors get the "Pay if it passes" deal and even that might end soon.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1839 Posts |
Interesting, didn't know that about the different plans. Yeah, they've only charged me for the ones that pass. I wonder why they offer that to collectors?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1192 Posts |
Survivor bias most likely as the others said. If you have a high toll you not submitting unless you think its super good and going to pass.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Wait for it!
The gold bean stickers are the next thing to be faked!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
500 Posts |
Even if it doesn't get stickered, isn't the cost of insurance, shipping to and from, etc. rather cost prohibitive to send in a lot you have low confidence in or chances of getting stickered?
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Yes, absolutely. The submitter has to do the math and calculate their tolerance for risk. Same as any TPG submission, really, except the upside is guaranteed if it stickers. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1094 Posts |
I seem to remember reading it costs approximately 12-15 dollars to submit a coin to CAC, but obviously that is the fee the dealer pays. What is a price I should expect if I give them some of my slabbed coins to send in? Most would be in the $250-$600 range.
thanks
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
What is a price I should expect if I give them some of my slabbed coins to send in? Most would be in the $250-$600 range. CAC charges collector/submitters $12.50/coin that passes plus the cost of return via USPS Registered Mail. Submission shipping is on you of course. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1094 Posts |
That's if you have an account with CAC. If you don't and go through a vender(LCS) what should I expect to pay per coin? Thanks
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
And does anyone have an idea when/if cac will allow us commoners to send directly again?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
That's if you have an account with CAC. If you don't and go through a vender(LCS) what should I expect to pay per coin? Including round-trip shipping and at an estimated value of ~$500/coin; I would guess $30/coin for CAC/shipping/vendor fees. Maybe up to $40/coin for some higher cost locales. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1094 Posts |
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Replies: 33 / Views: 10,750 |
Posted 04/07/2015 5:37 pm
