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1895 IHC Uncirculated

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Wizzy1's Avatar
United States
430 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  10:35 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Wizzy1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This coin is listed as uncirculated. When compared to other UNC 1895 IHC the patina is not there for a 120 year old coin. is this possible, or has it been cleaned?

1895-IHC-Uncirculated

1895-IHC-Uncirculated
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carnold744's Avatar
United States
415 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  10:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add carnold744 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me it looks like they used really bright lighting. That coin might look way different in hand.
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T-BOP's Avatar
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coin looks cleaned. There are two nubs on top of each corner of shield touching denticles. this bothers me because they don't belong there.
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Wizzy1's Avatar
United States
430 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wizzy1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are two nubs on top of each corner of shield touching denticles

Couldn't that be a poorly struck coin?
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Celticsoul's Avatar
United States
1566 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Celticsoul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not only is it cleaned, it also shows high point wear on the ribbon and curl so it's not technically uncirculated either. Those "nubs" are just the die crumbling.
Edited by Celticsoul
04/21/2015 11:48 am
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The_Duke's Avatar
United States
1745 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The_Duke to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see wear near the lower hair curl and ribbon. Not uncirculated, High AU, cleaned.
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  12:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
polished
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SHAFTA9a's Avatar
Canada
10743 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Something about the date..
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I recognize that technique from a certain ebay seller, although it's not relevant whether I'm right aside that seller is known to be an honest businessman regardless of the quality of his images or coins. If you buy and don't like, he'll work with you.

That said, I'm not drawing final conclusions from what I see here. The coin is overlit and washed out to an extent, and that bears directly on any opinion of whether or not the surfaces are original. The idea of an IHC in Mint State - certainly looks darn close to that - surviving this "bright" does not necessarily worry me, and the obviously (but slightly) off-center strike tends to reinforce but not confirm the notion that it's not counterfeit. I'm prepared to believe it's never been cleaned, but in truth the odds are against.

The nubs on the shield are believable functions of a somewhat well-used die, and not necessarily red flags either. The few marks I see are not inconsistent with what a Mint State coin might pick up in a bag. However, I worry in that some of the earliest signs of circulation are in the unfocused areas of the coin.

There. I've just typed a whole bunch of stuff without coming down firmly on either side of any equation. My work here is done.

I'm currently researching, especially about the date, and may have more to say in a few minutes.
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Wizzy1's Avatar
United States
430 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wizzy1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sdave very diplomatic (golf clap).Ive bought A LOT of coins from this seller and he's the best. Never a question regarding a return. I'm trying to learn what I can decipher about a coin from the picture. When I saw this I was very excited, it looks amazing. But then creeping doubts come in that such an old coin should not look this "fresh". Then I did a IHC coin search and all the MS/AU coins looked much deeper brown. I dont think authenticity is a question. I really want to like this coin, but so many of my recent upper grade purchases have been with details. So I'mtrying to learn before I bid instead of after.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The moment you see indications that coin and camera are not plumb, square and level to each other, you have to begin distrusting what you see of spatial relationships and indeed the actual shape of features. This coin is sharp at the top and blurred at the bottom, therefore out of square on at least one axis. That specific axis - horizontal as we look at it - shouldn't introduce distortions affecting the apparent horizontal width of the 8 or 9; that should be a function of the vertical axis. However, foreshortening is a very real problem with misalignnment on this axis and it could be sufficient to affect everything else.

I lean towards believing the authenticity. The date tilt is known and appropriate, as are the closed 9 and 5. The 9 has a ding affecting its' appearance. The apparent stroke differences between sides of the 8 are the chirf problem with the date, and thaqt's within the tolerance for photographic error I'm talking about.

I am a firm believer in Occam's Razor as the rule to which one seeks exceptions, and the predominant body of evidence indicates it's genuine. No firm assumption regarding the quality of the surfaces can be made from these images, but with this guy and the right price (especially if you're a regular) I'd probably pull the trigger.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36782 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  3:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one appears to be a whizzed coin.
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Nickel Guy's Avatar
United States
604 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  4:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nickel Guy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I recognize this seller also. And like SDave mentioned, he'll work with you.

The photos would keep me from pulling the trigger also. I would contact him and inform him I would be interested in seeing a couple more photos before I decided to purchase it.
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United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2015  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is just not really an Uncirculated coin. Maybe close, but I just don't like all the dings on the face.
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Neo13x's Avatar
United States
604 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2015  10:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Neo13x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think Dave did a good job answering the question. I agree the pictures are a little blurry to see possible wear and the lighting is making it hard to see the correct color.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2015  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's face it, there is simply no way to determine the corect grade of a coin, much less whether it has been tampered with, from a picture
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