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Morgan Dollar 1878 8TF - VAM Identification

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Valued Member

Italy
216 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2015  12:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add lux73 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am looking to buy this coin and need some help with VAM identification. I was looking at the A1c reverse and at the 14.7 but maybe I'm wrong. It seems to have the die flake next to ear and also the die chip under the eye but can't see the radial die crack on the right of the 1.
So if I'm wrong could you please give the right way to identify this 8TF?

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification


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nlp coins's Avatar
United States
2373 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2015  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nlp coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like the 14.7 to me if they exist in EDS where the date crack at 1 isn't definitive. I think I can see the radial die crack near the E on the obv. nlp
Rest in Peace
dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2015  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both die cracks are evident when supersizing your images. Nice find especially if it's a cherry pick!
Valued Member
Italy
216 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2015  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lux73 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for confirmation.
What do you think about the grade and the valute of this coin?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2015  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
14.7, eh? This is one we need to be absolutely sure about before we pronounce this attribution final, because this coin would probably raise the total real-world known population by about 10%. There are about 20 on the books between the 3 major services, but one must assume many of those are crackouts and regrades. Here's why:

This obverse had a very short life. Most of the known examples are Mint State, and PL and DMPL pieces with the full radial die crack exist. Further, they're so rare that a slight upgrade means big money - the last sale I found was an NGC MS62 which sold in February 2014 for $4112(!). All kinds of incentive to resubmit in hope of getting PL or a larger grade. I doubt there are as many as a dozen actual pieces known.

If 14.7, this is a major find which would probably count on the list of "top ten Morgan finds of 2015." It's *big.*

I have the impression of this one as having circulated slightly. AU55 in my book, but it has some symptoms of a slider. We know the reverse lasted a long time - 10 different obverse dies - and 14.7 is believed the third usage of that reverse. Therefore, I expect a good strike from a relatively fresh reverse, meaning what I see as wear on the reverse probably is, rather than being an artifact of a weak strike. Not that it matters. If you acquire this coin, lux73, it will be the most liquid piece in your collection. Checkbooks will open if you ever offer it.

As regards attribution, it's undoubtedly an A1c reverse, and I'm reasonably sure VAMs 3 & 4 are ruled out. With a coin of this potential importance, though, caution is imperative so let's take a second trip through the process and look at everything fresh.

Sure looks good for 14.7, though. Needless to say, lux72, snag this one if you get a price you consider reasonable.

If I could confirm original surfaces and attribution in hand, I would throw $1000 at it without question. Not that the current owner needs to know what I think.
Valued Member
United States
149 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2015  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add messydesk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure looks like 14.7 to me.
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Cascade's Avatar
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2015  11:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WOW

This is what makes vamming FUN!
Valued Member
Italy
216 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2015  04:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lux73 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not that the current owner needs to know what I think.


The owner doesn't know what you think and doesn't know what it is...He knows only that this is an 8TF...

We live in Italy and not too much people collect Morgan dollars and maybe only few people knows what a VAM morgan is..

I will keep you informed on the purchase and when I will have the coin in my hands I will post more pics
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2015  11:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please do. If we remain in agreement on the attribution with your own images, it'll be necessary to let the larger VAMming community know a new one has been found. Not that such a thing isn't expected - everyone knows there are a huge number of unattributed Morgans left out there.
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streg2's Avatar
United States
171 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2015  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add streg2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sure like the look of it.
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Cascade's Avatar
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2015  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Have you snagged it yet lux?!
Valued Member
Italy
216 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2015  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lux73 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can finally say that this coin will be mine. I was the highest bidder at a french coin auction and I got this coin for 160 euro (total with Bp+ shipping cost 189 euro = 215 usd).
I will receive the coin wednesday and will post new pics wishing it is really the 14.7.

Thanks
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Cascade's Avatar
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2015  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome! Can't wait
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2015  1:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice.
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RK55's Avatar
United States
2189 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2015  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Check RK55's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add RK55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome! I am as excited as if the coin was mine.

can't wait for the in hand coin photo's!

Valued Member
Italy
216 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2015  11:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lux73 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin just arrived this morning and I couln't wait to take other pics.
Here are some pics of obverse and reverse, the flake on the ear, the date (with a weak radial die crack), the die chip under the eye, the eds radial die crack by E PLURIBUS from the rim, the 8tf with the A1C reverse, the blob of metal at the bottom of the F and 2 pics of obverse and reverse mirror fields (maybe SPL or PL...I'm not too much into pl coins). I took the pics with daylight and with artificial led light (cheap usb microscope with led light) so everyone can make their own considerations.

If anyone wants other pics or full resolution pics just ask.

All comments are welcome.
Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification

Morgan-Dollar-1878-8TF---VAM-Identification
Edited by lux73
10/21/2015 11:22 am
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