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 Replies: 18 / Views: 2,995 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
The other day I purchased an 1857 Flying Eagle cent from a collector. I have been looking specifically for the 1857 obverse of 1856 variety for a while, and when I chanced upon a nice copy (NGC AU 55), I went for it. Studying this coin, I've noted some significant differences between the date on this coin and a more common 1857. The top photo is a "normal" date for 1857, and the bottom is my coin. I think there are several indicators of repunched dates under the 8, 5, and 7. I'm holding off from calling this a known variety because of what I found in the 8. "normal":  my coin (click for full detail):  Under my microscope, I found a clearly defined round shape in the SW quadrant of the lower loop on the 8. While it's rather subtle in the macro photo, under a scope it appears to be a distinctly geometric, raised area with clearly defined borders. Looking further, I found two raised triangular areas above the upper curve of the 8, with the right feature notably distinct—as much as the 7 corner seen on the 1858/7 on an MS grade coin.  So I tried an overlay of what might fit these features: a 5 at the same scale as the one on the coin and here's the result: While inconclusive, it's very intriguing how well a 5 fits these particular features! We need to find more coins that verify this possible RPD.  Edited by KurtS
01/12/2008 01:47 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
Very interesting... Now if you can find a coin with the image of the Virgin Mary, you might make millions!  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5318 Posts |
Hehe...well, if this RPD is verified by Rick Snow, I'll be happy enough! |
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Valued Member
United States
377 Posts |
Personally, I'd like to know what's going on with the tail of the "5" . I like the die crack too.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
Nice find Kurt. I tend to agree with your analysis. You must be using a scope, am I correct? I recently bought one and love it. Talk about seeing things you have never seen before, wow.
Jim
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Member
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3242 Posts |
Edited by amac44
01/12/2008 10:20 am
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Pillar of the Community
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5318 Posts |
Angelo--that's a great setup! Whatever works for you!  Well, you know...I can't pull any detail out of a digital photo with a microscope, but I do know a lot about digital photo processing. Perhaps if you send me a full-size of that photo you took, I can pull out some more detail? I'll send you my email address. |
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Member
United States
3242 Posts |
Do that and I will e-mail the phootbucket image.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
quote:
You must be using a scope, am I correct?
Yes, I use a Zeiss 32-1000 binocular I picked up for pretty cheap. But not for the photos...that's my Nikon D70s with the 60mm macro lens. It doesn't work too bad...but I want a digital microscope! quote:
Personally, I'd like to know what's going on with the tail of the "5" . I like the die crack too.
Pretty odd once you compare a "normal" date to this, huh? I can only guess this is due to some aggressive repunching. I did not mention this in my analysis, but there are two raised, curved features in the SE corner of the 5's loop. My guess is the 5 was repunched twice, and contributed to the bulbous tail. |
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Pillar of the Community
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549 Posts |
That is seriously cool.
Just out of curiousity, how many hours did you spend analyzing this coin?
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Pillar of the Community
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5318 Posts |
quote:
Just out of curiosity, how many hours did you spend analyzing this coin?
Thanks! Hmm...time? Research comes easy to me...the hours fly by! I'd say several hours at least! |
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Member
United States
3242 Posts |
maybe 2 hour at the most.
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Pillar of the Community
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5318 Posts |
quote:
maybe 2 hour at the most.
Huh? Were you there? Btw--I just saw your photo...I'll take a look this evening and post anything I can resolve from the pic. I have a lot more research notes on this coin that I'm not posting for now...perhaps later! Eventually, I'm sending this FE to Rick Snow for attribution...sofar it doesn't seem to be S-1 or S-2, unless everyone missed these RPDs. Edited by KurtS
01/12/2008 9:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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3507 Posts |
Heres the problem with the theory.. If the 5 was originally in a position to show up where the 8 ought to be, then there should be remnants of a 7 where the 5 is now.
The indications for 1857 FE cents is that on some dies a four digit gang punch was used or a dual digit punch was used for the 57. There is evidence of both. To my knowledge, there is no evidence of individual numbers being punched into the dies for 1857 FE cents. There could be but I am not aware of anything to support it.
So if a 5 is over the 8, then there at least should be remnants of a 7 over the 5 if there was a dual digit punch used.
If there was a four digit punch used, then there should be evidence of all four digits shifted to the left of the date.
I think it is an interesting shape withing the opening of the 8, but I also see a curved line under the 8 that could indicate a die scratch.
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Pillar of the Community
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3507 Posts |
Amac434, your coin shows damage to the die. No overdate or anything like that.
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Pillar of the Community
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5318 Posts |
quote:
The indications for 1857 FE cents is that on some dies a four digit gang punch was used or a dual digit punch was used for the 57. There is evidence of both. To my knowledge, there is no evidence of individual numbers being punched into the dies for 1857 FE cents.
Bill, thanks for that information! I'm simply trying to explain the obvious relief feature in the lower loop of the 8 (the photos don't convey this well). The fact that other features line up is well...I feel more than coincidence, even by the fact that gang punches were used. You may note, that there may be evidence of the far right curve of the 5 as well (although I didn't note with arrows). If this is confirmed to be a 5 underneath, what theories does that disprove? Traces of the 7 may remain to be found. I really appreciate your knowledge, and will look for evidence of a 7 also. Like I mentioned before, I hope to have Rick Snow look at this and comment. There is some other fascinating details to this coin I have yet to post...more soon! Edited by KurtS
01/12/2008 11:15 pm
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Replies: 18 / Views: 2,995 |
Posted 01/12/2008 01:54 am
nice
