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 Replies: 102 / Views: 17,051 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1751 Posts |
I was just reviewing the sold prices with buyers premium, of the first section of Colonial Acres auction, part two starts in 30 min on icollector. Even with the added costs about 90% of sold coins went for under estimate. Others never got a bid, what does this mean for the future of the hobby?
Are coins just overpriced,? How are estimates arrived at? This is my first time looking at big auctions. I was astonished at what I saw.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5308 Posts |
Most of the items are common stuff, garners very little action, plus we need young bloods in the hobby most shows there is few new young collectors.
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1679 Posts |
Over estimate lot 162 1907 MS64 Red (est 300-400) sold for 550 plus fees 99 ---what a great price for the seller, must have been a bidding war.
Cheers Don
Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5273 Posts |
Actually there is very little wrong with the Canadian coin Market. The real market for quality Canadian coins is NOT in Canada, it is elsewhere. Namely the USA. Lots of better Canadian coins are ending up in the states due to the exchange rate and the high rate of taxes on numismatic coins in Canada.
Ask any dealer who sells better numismatic Canadian where it goes when sold, the answer is sure ain't Canada.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
So why's there not a healtheir market for Canadian coins in Canada?
Just a side thought, please don't shoot me but.....
Every time I attend any sort of coin function I notice that the hobby seems largely dominated by older males. I scratch my head at the reason. In the 50s and 60s it certainly was true that the majority of women did not work outside of the home, the husband was largely responsible for financial decisions which presumably involved cash, coin and thus collections evolved from that. But flash forward -- this is the year 2015 and the appeal hasn't changed? I ask myself why but I have absolutely no answer.
On that topic, I'm reluctant to mention my experience and from my perspective at the recent Edmonton coin show that I and my husband attended but I'm going to anyway. He has absolutely no interest in coins whatsoever but he good naturally tags along with me. Something happened consistently and I admit it sort of surprised me -- we'd approach a table, I'd make a casual remark associated to coin on display either to him or the vendor.....then invariably the vendor would look directly st my husband without him saying one word and ask him something to the effect of "Are you a collector?". It was as if I was invisible. He's say "No but my wife is". This really didn't bother me in the slightest......I worked for decades in a predominately male environment and I understand how it is, but I think it might be a big turn off to other females.
Therefore I'd say if the hobby is to flourish in the future, the door certainly needs to be opened to younger collectors and that must include woman as well otherwise over half the population of possible collectors is getting excluded. It's also very true that younger folk may be hesitant to become involved in a hobby that on the surface seems to be dominated by the stereotype of "an old boys club" -- but the look at the bright side, golfing is now a hugely popular game enjoyed by men and women of all ages!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1051 Posts |
I'm going to lay down the straight goods, no apologies. The reasons are many. A lot of collectors are either older guys or basement dwellers, neither of which bring much "cool" factor to attract new collectors. Let's face it, it's a nerdy hobby, that's how many people look at it. The decline of physical money can't be ignored either, as more and more transactions go digital. There are LOTS of fakes out there, some good enough to fool professional graders. A lot of people are struggling financially, and realistically coin collecting is a luxury. Young people are simultaneously disinterested in history, and perpetually distracted by electronics and social media. It's a hobby where the experienced stand to gain financially from taking advantage of the inexperienced, and that's always dangerous. For those of us that already collect, the TPG grading standards slide is frustrating, and the Trends "values" that are based on some sort of fantasy are a joke. At this point I have fully accepted that the coins I own will probably be worth very little at some point, and they include quite a few of the toughest dates in the Canadian series. The last coin I bought was a ruthenium Fiji Taku. The odd NCLT coin is about the only thing keeping my collector pilot light from completely blowing out these days. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1489 Posts |
I am not sure how you define "healthy", if the start price is lower than the avg. ebay price, they seem to sell, if the start price is above that, they seem to go unsold. If Trends is how you define healthy, then I would say the market is pretty sick. \ I have noticed the same thing as you pocket-change in terms of prices for mid-grade MS coins, not sure if the estimates are wishful thinking or part of the sales pitch so that you feel you are getting a deal/discount. Nobody likes paying "retail" so we wait for the "sale". With the exception of the highest grade coins, recent ebay/coinsandcanada avg ebay prices seem to be pretty close to auction prices. Prices above estimates seem to be the exception. A couple of my purchases 1905 Large Cent ICCS 63 RB Estimate: $100-$150 Coins&Canada ebay: $122 Coins&Canada List: $170 Charlton:$175 Trends: ? Actual: $93 1952 & 1953SD 50 Cent ICCS 64 Estimate: $90-$100 Coins&Canada ebay: $70 Coins&Canada List: $90 Charlton:$105 Trends: ? Actual: $73 1925 5 cent PCGS 40 (Probably a 30 in my opinion) Estimate:$80-$100 Coins&Canada ebay: $150 @vf30 Coins&Canada List: $250 (est between 20 and 40) Charlton:$350? (est between 20 and 40) Trends: ? Actual: $143 The 1925 had a note on the item to "take a close look for grading opinion", which I think is reflected in the low estimate. When I posted photo's in the grading section, there was a wide opinion on grades VF20 to EF45, with some saying a weak strike. It will be interesting to see the coin in hand. These results are consistent to what I have seen/realized in other auctions. |
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Pillar of the Community
710 Posts |
 Demographics plays a huge part in the Canadian market, both for age of collectors and less demand. Anything to promote the hobby and encourage new collectors definitely gets my vote.
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Valued Member
Canada
127 Posts |
I have been collecting for the only past four years and I am in my 50's. In my 20's and 30's I played hockey and ski'd, then in my 40's it was squash and home/cottage projects. No interest in coins until I was in my 50's. Frankly, now that my children are older and my parents have passed that I actually have free time and also some disposable cash. Life was more of a struggle in my earlier years, what with mortgages, careers, etc. My hobbies will consume me for the next 20 to 30 years - God-willing. My son-in-law and youngest son are very interested in coins and look at my collection with morbid fascination (inheritance). The point is, coin collecting is potentially expensive and most young people have other priorities for their money. The advent of ebay and online auctions, has made it much more accessible to quiet collectors like me. In summary, I am not worried about the hobby, other than perhaps NCLTs for other reasons. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
My son-in-law and youngest son are very interested in coins and look at my collection with morbid fascination (inheritance).
Pfrien, I don't know if you read my comment above but I'm curious why interest in the hobby of coin collecting seems to be primarily male dominated. In my opinion that in itself makes for a dismal future because it goes without saying that typical couples today are far more likely to participate in hobbies, interests and pastimes where both can gain some benefit, especially when there is cost involved. I honestly am seeking to understand......
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New Member
United States
35 Posts |
I went to the national coin show in Chicago last year. I brought with me 4 coins Canadian coins that I wanted to find out more about. The dealers around me know less about the Canadian coins than I do. One was a 1938 Canadian nickel that I thought might possibly be a proof because it looked so much "shinier" than the other UNC ish nickels I had to compare it to.
After asking several dealers who seemed to specialize in Canadian coins I was directed to "the guy". I showed him my coin and his response was - "if you can't tell a proof from an AU coin - I can't help you". His name was Brian Somebody with dark hair and glasses. Other dealers I had shown the coin thought it would have been the proof.
I guess what I am trying to say is I love the Canadian series but with the lack of information available (including realistic pricing) and especially the abundance of twits as dealers (He was selling coins there- I did not leave until I spent the 10k I brought with me- just not at his table) I can see anyone being turned off by the hobby.
Every time one of you dealers embarrasses a parent who brings in their child and asks too many beginner questions
Every time one of you low ball the crap out of a person bringing in coins to sell or "down" the collection they are putting together
Every time you try to carry yourselves superior to a potential customer
------you are hurting the hobby for the rest of us
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1489 Posts |
Michaellisa, I could be wrong, but I don't think Canada had any proof coins in the 30's, possible a Specimen, if you still have the coin and post a couple pictures, you will find a lot of helpful members in this forum on identification. They have helped me many times. I think you make a good point on dealers with bad attitudes, nothing chases away potential collectors faster than being a jerk, lowball prices when purchasing from you and listing at a premium price, when you can quickly find the same coin at a significant discount online. That being said, dealers do need to make money as well, I would be curious if you could share some examples of low ball prices to help frame the debate. I do believe there is a difference between offering a low price (leaving room for margin) and telling someone it is in worse condition/not valuable/non-variety. A local coin and stamp shop turned me off stamps for the exact examples you mentioned above. I inherited a collection of stamps & coins from my grandma, went into the shop and asked some rookie questions, person was dismissive and annoyed. I ended up buying a few hundred in supplies & material for the stamps over a couple months to get the collection organized, but similar attitude. When it came time to start purchasing stamps, I tested the waters with a few minor purchases, that were charged at the stamp equivalent of trends. When I decided to look at ebay, it was a surprising to see that I could find the same stamps at 25% the price, if not lower. Coins were priced in a similar manner. Had I started my explorations of collecting with coins, I would probably not be collecting today. I am probably what you would consider to be at the young end, male, mid-thirties. |
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New Member
Canada
8 Posts |
I am in my mid twenties and just started collecting coins this year. It's always been in the back of my mind, and I finally got to start it this year. I find Canadian and European coins very interesting, and I would love to get my hands on to some higher grade/early date silver coins. However, due to the same reasons many of you have mentioned above, I've been hesitant diving into paying high premiums over melt value.
I enjoy having good coins, and I love the history aspect behind them. But I have difficulty justifying spending big money on something the younger generation may lose interest in. Ideally I'd like any good coin I buy to track inflation over the long term, but I just don't really see that happening to most coins. Guess I'll stick to paying close to bullion value for things for now... The stock market offers much better returns if you know what you're doing.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
Every time one of you dealers embarrasses a parent who brings in their child and asks too many beginner questions
Every time one of you low ball the crap out of a person bringing in coins to sell or "down" the collection they are putting together
Every time you try to carry yourselves superior to a potential customer
------you are hurting the hobby for the rest of us
I certainly agree with you. Nobody is suggesting all dealers are hurting the hobby and those who are may not even realize the influence that they wield. But similar to a customers' earliest encounter with any type of business - a specific retail store, dentist's office, themed restaurant, bank, car dealership, library...anything - the manner in which one is treated can form either a long lasting positive or negative association. This is particularly important because relative to a hobby such as coin collecting, participation is 100% voluntary. It's not a matter of taking one's business to the competition - more than likely the collector just opts out.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1269 Posts |
A dealer has one chance to make a positive impression with me. If they do not I will never patronize them. It is a buyers market and I will take my business where it is appreciated. While everyone can have a bad day, to be blunt, I am not looking for friends I want to buy coins. If I make friends as a result that is fine, it is just not my main focus.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5308 Posts |
Most dealers at the GTA shows are ok and helpful in general but there are a couple that I wouldn't deal with even if they had a cool coin that I wanted due to as mentioned the first contact a few years ago where they wouldn't give you the time of the day because they thought you can't afford a 10.00 coin. I do see an real effort of most dealers and show owners lately to promote younger collectors with info seminars and free admission.
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Replies: 102 / Views: 17,051 |
Posted 11/14/2015 5:13 pm
