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 Replies: 15 / Views: 5,721 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Hi, I have a couple of proof coins that hopefully fall into one the three attached NGC pricing categories-  taken from: http://www.NGCcoin.com/price-guide/...1-duid-80504I need someone to point out specifically what these objects look like and exactly where on this coin they are located. Wouldn't it be neat if I had a 1969 2.5 Gulden proof 'Fish privy mark without front hair lock.? thx |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
937 Posts |
The privey marks or Differces, are normally near the date. The fish will look like a little fish, the cock like a rooster. I will try to find link http://en.ucoin.net/coin/netherland...9/?cid=12130this has the cock privy under the fraction and above the N I have not found a pictur with the hairlock. That will just be like a curl in the middle of her forehead. Edited by Tryna
11/30/2015 2:45 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3546 Posts |
This simulated photo from NGC supposedly has the hair lock but I cannot distinguish it on her forehead. If you can see it on this NGC picture, could you draw an arrow pointing to its location? And please continue to also search for and post a real life photo of the coin with this lock. http://www.NGCcoin.com/price-guide/...1-duid-80504 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
You may want to check the thread title.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Here are the obv. and rev. photos of the actual coin in question:   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Here's the definition of a proof from PCGS: PL: Prooflike |Morgan Dollars. Clear reflection in the fields on both sides from 2-4 inches away. A misty effect or striations may impede the reflectivity. http://www.PCGS.com/gradesThis is what I am seeing when I pass a bi-colored (white/re) pencil 2" away from both the obv and rev.:    |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Here's a close-up of the forehead to determine the presence of not of the 'front hair lock':  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
In summary, here are my remaining questions:
1) Since this circulated coin obviously has the cock bird on the left reverse side under the '2 1/2', what is the figure called which is located under the 'G' also on the reverse of this coin? I assume that this is not a figure of some odd looking fish...
2) Because I cannot locate any coin with a fish on it, would this theoretical coin have a fish replacing the cock thus eliminating the cock completely off of both sides of the coin?
3) Do my photos confirm that this coin qualifies as a proof coin per PCGS standards?
4) Does the ruler, Juliana, lack a 'hair lock' on my obv. pictures of her head?
5) Would this coin therefore be classified per NGC pricing guidelines as a '1969 Proof, Cock privy mark, 2-1/2 Gulden having a 500 mintage with a retail value of $ 450?
6) If this coin turns out to be one of the 500 coins described in 5) above, what % off of the NGC $ 450 retail price could one expect to subtract to account for the circulation wear present on this coin?
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Valued Member
Netherlands
74 Posts |
The answers:
1) that's the mint mark. You can find that mint mark on any Dutch coin minted in Utrecht.
2) yes
3) No. This is not a proof coin, it's just a well circulated coin. Value maybe $1. Sorry to crush your dreams...
4) Don't know, I've never heard of this variety. It's not in the standard Dutch catalogues.
5) No
6) Any post WWII proof coin with this level of wear would not be worth any more than if it had been a non-proof coin, for the simple reason that you wouldn't be able anymore to determine with certainty that it was a proof coin before it circulated. And non-silver circulated Dutch post WWII coins have pretty much no value since there are so many left of them, while they lost their intrinsic value soon after the introduction of the Euro (contrary to some other EU countries they can't be exchanged anymore at the Mint for euros.)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
More specifically, the Utrecht mint mark is the caduceus, or two serpents entwined around a staff. It's a symbol for medicine, dating back to antiquity.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Quote:
...Utrecht mint mark Thanks Finn, this is great info. of which I did not know about. But I still do not understand why this coin is not a proof when one can obviously see an image reflected off of its surface using the red/white pencil described above. Plus the image produced on the surface of the coin from a reflection appears to meet the PCGS standards for a proof... Also, please confirm that this coin is the cock without the front hair lock. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
The mirrored fields don't necessarily make it a proof, as others have said here.
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Valued Member
Belgium
464 Posts |
Edited by dohcollector
12/12/2015 3:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5828 Posts |
There is a difference between proof, and proof like. I believe that your coin is proof like. A proof like coin is a coin struck for circulation that is struck with newly prepared, or "fresh", dies. As a result, many modern proof like coins are mirrors everywhere, with no cameo. A proof coin, however, is struck with special dies set to a higher pressure for striking. These coins have strong, deep mirror fields and nice, strong cameo.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
Proof dies are created by treating the dies with acid to produce a frosty look, then polishing the fields until mirror-like.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts |
The mistake here is trying to apply PCGS' standards for Morgan dollars to a nickel coin from the Netherlands. Some things aren't universally applicable - this is one of them. I have quite a few Dutch coins that have frosted details and smooth surfaces - that's just how they do things at the Royal Dutch Mint. Edited by nalaberong
12/12/2015 6:06 pm
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Replies: 15 / Views: 5,721 |
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Posted 11/30/2015 3:41 pm
