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 Replies: 17 / Views: 3,603 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2871 Posts |
I think this is fair use - it's a section of an editorial from a UK coin magazine which goes into some discussion on the differences between UK and USA collecting mindsets. It might be of interest. The American market for coins is very different from ours in the UK and it isn't just a matter of scale, it's a matter of attitude. Where we "Brits" buy our coins based on numerous factors, investment isn't always top of the list. Certainly we would be foolish, and probably fibbing, if we said that we couldn't care less about the value of our collections but value isn't the overriding factor when making a decision to buy. Because of the variety of coins we have to choose from, our collecting habits differ from those of our US cousins and whilst the Ancient and World coin market is thriving in the States (with those collectors being more akin to us in their buying and collecting) the market for US coins is by far the biggest and in that the choices are limited and so collecting patterns are different too. US coins have only been around for 200 or so years, every one is milled and whilst you do get sub-themes like Colonial coinage on the whole US coins are fairly uniform and so collecting them has to be different to collecting, say, hammered Saxon pennies. As most US coins are still in fairly good "nick" the minutiae of grading comes to the fore and this is why "slabbing" has developed. This in turn has allowed coins to be traded as commodities with more confidence. This has evolved further with guaranteed "first strikes" and recognised varieties being slabbed and thus labelled, creating another sub-strata of collecting and so on. The slab has allowed the collector to buy and sell coins much more easily and this has led, logically, to a boom in coins as investment. In the UK, with grading being so subjective such trading solely as a money-making exercise isn't quite so easy. Purists will be glad of that, the idea of buying and selling solely to make money out of coins is anathema to the numismatist and, of course, the slab is vilified by many over here. We at COIN NEWS never advocate buying coins just as an investment, we encourage collecting for the fun of it, however, as the average age of the collector goes up and younger ones don't come along like once they did, is it perhaps time to ask whether the hobby here couldn't learn a thing or two from the Americans? Is it now time to look at encouraging investors? Encourage the looking at coins as commodities as well as collectables? Is it (shock, horror) time to slab? I'm certainly not saying yes, I'm simply asking the question of the hobby. I don't know whether slabbing and "trading"would ever take off over here but I do know that coin collecting in America is far bigger than it is in the UK and that's not just because the country is bigger. Is it time to take ourselves down that same path as they have trodden in order to expand our hobby, or is that a step too far? |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
Interesting read,thanks for posting it. John1  |
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Moderator
United States
15400 Posts |
I enjoyed the insight. Thanks  David Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4589 Posts |
Can you post a link to the whole thing? I'd like to read more.
Thanks!
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Valued Member
United States
72 Posts |
Great article and very interesting. I remember years back when certifying coins was just starting the local dealers were having fits. They were so used to grading the way they graded and felt that the certification process was going to hurt their local stores.
Maybe they were intimidated I don't know. But the certification process has done nothing but increase popularity in the hobby because even non-collectors are buying.
It's added a level of legitimacy to the profession that just didn't exist before. The coin dealers who were honest are still around. Those who aren't are gone.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
US coins as an investment has not been pushed terribly hard by the market makers since the 1989 death march of prices. TPG's not only assure an investor who is buying for that purpose, but also helps many collectors, too. For those who have neither the patience nor the eye for learning to grade, the TPG's do give a close range the majority of the time. Even here when we ask for opinions on the grade of a coin, the evaluations vary WILDLY. One person sees a counterfeit or a fake, another sees a cleaned coin, another counts it MS, and a few more wouldn't go over EF, at best. Those expressed opinions from folks who claim to know how to grade. Since the majority of coins are now traded via web based purchases, using only single shot pictures of obverse and reverse most of the time, the pictures themselves are often inadequate for a real determination of grade or even of authenticity. Thus the TPG's do offer a much better estimate on a coin than pictures only. If you don't like the slab, pop them out. But it's foolish to do so. Just take a photo of the coin in the slab, reduce the size to fit your album, and put the photos of the coin in the album as a place holder for the coin itself.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
What do you know, I must be British!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
849 Posts |
So where does that put the Canadian collectors? Closer to the U.S. or somewhere in the middle?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts |
I don't know what to think about slabbing. It strikes me as something of a racket. The market has been cornered by a tiny handful of organisations who apparently have this reputation for being trustworthy. How do you know they can be trusted? Since the value of a coin can vary so dramatically with its grade, who's to say the whole process isn't corrupt?
On the other hand, I appreciate that a slabbed coin is at least certified as authentic. As a collector of British coins I would find that kind of reassurance welcome when it comes to more expensive purchases.
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
2871 Posts |
I can't post a link to it all as it's a bought magazine (I actually get the electronic copy) for only £1 an electronic issue which is a bargin) I just copied out that relevant section. The magazine is called Coin News. Here's a link to to actual publication "blurb" http://www.tokenpublishing.com/coins.asp |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2871 Posts |
Quote:
On the other hand, I appreciate that a slabbed coin is at least certified as authentic I think (?) that only goes so far. I believe some attempts have been made to slab ancients - but they come with NO guarantee of authenticity. I'm not sure how that translates to medieval or other hammered. I don't own a single slab - but then I don't trade coins as commodities and a good number are hammered anyway. And I like my coins in a cabinet too so that's another factor. My hammered Indian rupees are probably too thick to slab comfortably as well. Another factor is I like the tactility of coins - the history of who actually used them and what in history was going on when that was happening. I can see some argument that says slabbing coins to increase confidence in the overall market will actually improve the market and add value somewhat offsetting the cost of the slabbing process, however at the end of the day the slabbing companies make a profit and somebody has to pay for it - which is back to the investment/pure enjoyment dichotomy. For very expensive coins (particularly gold) slabbing is a great way of minimizing accidental damage and general conserving for historical purposes though the bar as to what really should be slabbed seems to be set very low. Edited by Bacchus2
01/16/2016 03:58 am
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts |
Bacchus2, what cabinet do you use? I've been wanting to purchase one of those famous Peter Nichols cabinets for a while, but have never got round to it: http://www.coincabinets.com/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Investment has never been my goal in collecting. I still get more excited by finding a coin that I need from circulation than buyin a coin from the mint, a dealer, or another collection. With regards to slab coins, those would only be considered for key and some semi-key US coins since the risk of getting a fake is too much of risk. Slabbing went from being good from endorsing too maybe gimmicks. Does is really matter if I have a first strike, early strike, etc....does any of that really matter? For example, go back in time, does it matter if you have a first strike 1909 S VBD or the last strike of the coin? For me, just having one would be good - slabbed or not. I can't think of any reason to get a modern US coin or modern UK coinm slabbed. What I have noticed being an American who has been living in the UK since 1998 is that in the US you can still find old coins in circulation while in the UK you can't because of the switch to decimal coins. Some coins, especially the pound coins, really take a beating, so it is really a pain finding a good condition pound coin which is only a few years old. The upcoming change in the pound coin, will mean that the old style will be withdrawn from circulation. In the US, cents, nickels, dimes, quarters (except for the S ones) are released for circulation each year. Sad that the Kennedy half and dollar coins don't circulate. Used to be a treat doing down to the bank many years ago to ask the teller for the new Kennedy half and Ike dollars each year. In the UK, they decide not to release some coins for circulation in some years. The 2009 to 2011 - 50 pence coins with the Royal Shield is a recent example. I had a young persom who was getting interesting in starting to collect but stopped when they could not get the Royal Shield set for each year. Another example is the change from being able to get the £5 coins at face value from the bank or post office to a cost of £13 plus postage. This puts people off from collecting these now. The latest is the annoucement that the 2016 pound coins will not be released for circulation. Ken |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
On the other hand, I appreciate that a slabbed coin is at least certified as authentic And hopefully it actually is. Remember back in November a group of fakes appeared that got past all four major services. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2815 Posts |
Quote:Used to be a treat doing down to the bank many years ago to ask the teller for the new Kennedy half and Ike dollars each year. I can only imagine how awesome this was! What were your feelings about the discontinuation of the Ike dollar back in '78-'79? Were you disappointed at all? I kind of see your point regarding modern coins with a "first strike" designation. I can see how this appears gimmicky. However, I can also appreciate why a collector would seek one of these out. The idea being that such a designated coin would, in theory, yield the best chance of getting a specimen with the most complete fullness of detail. It's just personal preference. For me, TPG slabs have always been about protection/authentication. I've just never been concerned about grades. After all, the slab does not change the actual coin itself. You're still buying the coin. Grading is subjective. The coin is what it is. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2871 Posts |
Quote:
Bacchus2, what cabinet do you use Peter Nichols are definitely the gold standard of cabinets - when I worked in the museum they had a few and they were really well made. Mine are of an "unknown" maker but they are pretty good. One holds about 1100 coins and the other around 600 I think. The little one was second hand - about £90 or so. The big one was a couple of hundred but that was 20 years ago. The big one       The little 'um   |
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,603 |
Posted 01/15/2016 05:41 am
