New Alloy Discovery For 1804 CCC 2r Kleeberg Type

John, saw that coin when it was previously listed. My impression of the piece was that it was just kind of a sloppy casting. If you get past the muddled transitions between relief and fields, the design elements look quite correct for an 1804 (and surrounding) Lima 2R... even down to the inward-sloping date digits.

Also, I would offer that "assayer J" is actually just the correct-for-the-date assayer JP with the "P" just lost in a non-impressed and/or worn area. Fairly sure I see a weak impression of what should be the dot after J (though not really any trace of the "P" after that).

The 1822 Durango 8R is an interesting piece. The obverse is fairly accurate... but then the reverse went all wrong!

Several people have E-Mailed me about this specimen and Kleeberg's. The main features on this counterfeit 2 Reales Contemporary Circulating Counterfeit or the requirements to be classed in this Counterfeit Family:

1. Must be off-metal: copper, brass, bronze, German silver.

2. Debased silver issues which are MORE COMMON and worth less are not classified as Kleebergs.

3. Almost always Plain Edge and Medal Turn Die Axis.

4. Spanish-American Mint types which circulated in the 18thC and 19thC.

References: Part 1: 2000 ANS/COAC article, Part 2: ANS Colonial Newsletter update (Found on the Mexican Numismatic Association Library Link to members). You can contact me for a free digital PDF copy. Part 3: Forthcoming in my new book on CCC's (various topics).

5. Currently ~ 150 varieties. Most Rarity 8-9.

6. See Stacks/Bowers November 2012 (David Wnuck Collection) for a good reference.

JPL