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 Replies: 21 / Views: 4,467 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
I've been looking at 1921-D Mercury dimes recently. I go to PCGS Coin Facts today and I see for this (and every) coin they have the PCGS price guide, the PCGS population, "Auctions - PCGS Graded", and "Auctions - NGC Graded". http://www.PCGScoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/4936So why is it that when you look at a certain grade, say VG10 for example, the price guide value ($145) is higher than all five of the PCGS graded auction values (range $88-$135), and all five of the listed NGC graded auction values (range $88-$101). The same is true at nearly every grade. Is this because the price guide value is what you should expect to pay in a coin shop, with all the associated dealer overhead fees built in? And that the auctions don't account for such things? I'm confused. Anyone have a solid understanding of this? Thanks! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
It is very simple, the PCGS price guide values are inflated and have been for many years.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
 Of course PCGS wants to raise the bar on pricing. They create more value for themselves and their brand of business. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
If any submitted coins successfully crossover to PCGS, they will charge you a guarantee premium fee which is equal to 1% of the PCGS price guide value in that grade or the declared value. They have a clear financial incentive to keep the values inflated.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2815 Posts |
IMO, price guides are obsolete relics. Do not consider them. Period. You want the most honest price guide available? Look no further than " ebay completed/sold" sales. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Also, when you submit coins the value of the coin determines the tier you have to pay.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
591 Posts |
That last point (moxking) seems the most egregious to me. I mean, a coin is a coin is a coin. They should be giving each and every coin the same amount of time and scrutiny REGARDLESS of the value. I can see insurance on shipping to change based on the estimated grade, but not the fee for grading itself. So, looking at F12 (1921-D merc again), the PCGS price guide says $210, with the five listed PCGS graded auction values range of $120-$141 (two are ebay), and the five listed NGC graded auction values range of $129-$154. The average of these ten auction values being $134! This is 36% less than the listed PCGS price guide value. Now Numismedia FMV lists this coin at F12 for $168, and they state [from http://www.numismedia.com/fmv/fmvside.shtml] : Quote:
Fair Market Value is not a new term; however, it may be somewhat new to the coin industry. It refers to the price a dealer is asking for a coin, which is somewhat over his wholesale price. You may ask why you cannot buy coins at wholesale. Very simply, you can. All you have to do is buy an inventory, set up your office or store, dedicate yourself full-time, buy insurance, obtain a security system, hire employees, advertise your company name, and you are in business. You can compete with the other dealers on an equal basis. However, if you are not prepared to do this, then you must allow the dealers who are in business, who bear the risks of market cycles, a fair markup on the coins they inventory. These dealers have to make a living just like you do in your chosen career. So I think we can see for a number of reasons why the price that one would expect to pay for a coin will change based on the venue (dealer shop vs. coin auction). PCGS has an interest in inflating their price guide value for a number of reasons (as folks have mentioned on this topic) and a dealer is expected to charge more to cover overhead, etc. Only the realized prices for auctions present the true "market" value for just the coin itself. I would expect the raw vs. slabbed differential of auction sales to reflect both the avg cost of certification and the potential in the buyer's eyes that the coin is at least one step down in grade from where it might actually be. I am fairly new at this, but it seems TPG'ing primarily benefits the seller, so they can get an ask price based on documented value, whereas the buyer will use their own judgement (to discern grade) and just pass on an ungraded coin if it is overpriced. Edited by one_fine_dime
02/01/2016 1:29 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
Just spoke to PCGS. I think I'm a little more clear on things. The price guide value: Quote:
The prices listed in the PCGS Price Guide are average dealer asking prices for PCGS-graded coins. The prices are compiled from various sources including dealer ads in trade papers, dealer fixed price lists and website offerings, significant auctions, and activity at major coin shows. Dealer specialists and expert collectors provide pricing input. Remember that the prices are just a guide, a starting point for asserting value. Some PCGS coins sell for less than the prices listed and some PCGS coins sell for more than the prices listed. So this will include typical dealer mark-ups (cost of doing business). Also, I looked at the submission tiers. $20/coin up to a $300 value; $32/coin up to a $3,000 value; and $60/coin up to a $20,000 value. They said this is for insurance. Meaning, if the coin is damaged/lost while in their possession, what is the submitter comfortable as a declared value. So the submitter decides. I agree that using the ebay realized prices as well as these PCGS auction lists are the best way to determine value, if excluding dealer mark-ups. It would be nice to give my business to my LCS, but sometimes the mark-ups are just too prohibitive. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Once you look at the guide enough, you get a decent feel for the 'fudge-factor' for a particular series. I like the PCGS guide for it's speed and ease of use.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
If you really want price comparisons Heritage has all price guides including trends, CDN, Past sales, and more all on one page. Every major price list all in one place.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
moxking - do you have to pay for that (i.e., Heritage price guide, etc.)? If not, can you provide a link as I'm having trouble finding it? Thanks.
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New Member
United States
30 Posts |
one_fine_dime, Heritage archive info is free. To get the info moxking mentioned, first you have to find one "sold" listing: http://coins.ha.com/itm/mercury-dim...bnail-071515Scroll down that link SLOWLY. There's a wealth of info. There are 118 similar listings. Give me a minute, I'll post how you can find them all. Edited by CO Collector
02/01/2016 7:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
You may need to register for a free account at Heritage to view the auction history.
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New Member
United States
30 Posts |
To search Heritage archives for all "sold" listings for a 1921-D F12 Dime... At HA.com, near the top of the page find the "Resources" tab. Click "Research Auction Archives". In the left column titled " Site", click "Coins: U.S., Worlds, and Ancients". Your applied filters should read, "Coins", "Auction Archives", "Sold". Next, scroll down the same left column to "Refine" your search... Coin Category: Dimes... Mercury dimesCoin Year: 1921 Coin Grade: F12 Mintmark: D That should give you a list of 119 previous auction sales. Enjoy! Edited by CO Collector
02/01/2016 7:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Yeah, whenever I'm serious about buying a coin, Heritage Auction Archives is the "go to" place for me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
Thanks everyone - Heritage archives looks very promising.
CO Collector - I followed your directions, got me to the right place. Only thing is I can't see the realized prices unless I "Sign-in or Join (free & quick)". So I'll try the latter option and see how that goes.
Edited by one_fine_dime
02/02/2016 11:52 am
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Replies: 21 / Views: 4,467 |
Posted 02/01/2016 06:59 am
