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1816 MO Jj Mexico 1/2r - Need Help

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Pillar of the Community

United States
684 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2016  3:14 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Westwood Arms to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Picked this up at a Heritage auction, NGC AU 55. As you can see, the pcs. are not good. Good crack candidate.

Anyway what I failed to capture in the photo is that on the date side, flanking the bust on each side are incuse impressions of pillars and ribbons. Nicely centered in the fields on each side of Ferd. and in great alignment. On the pillar side, an incuse impression of the bottom of Ferdinand's bust (the drape) is clearly visible underneath the shield.

There is some other stuff going but is hard to see. In fact if you look at the coin directly, the incuse images especially the pillars and ribbons are not visible. But if you tilt the coin to the light the incuse images jump out under naked eye. My wife, who is not used to looking closely at coins easily spotted the impressions.

I will probably crack this but before I do, I was wondering if anyone had seen one of these before, and would tell me how it was made.



1816-MO-Jj-Mexico-1/2r---Need-Help

1816-MO-Jj-Mexico-1/2r---Need-Help
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thedollarman's Avatar
Canada
4911 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2016  3:17 pm  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
it is likely a die clash.
Feel free to call me Will.
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swamperbob's Avatar
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5362 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2016  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree it is a simple die clash. The Spanish American colonial issues (all denominations) were struck on manually operated screw presses with no collar. The planchets were hand centered on the anvil die by a human who had a second or two to remove the struck coin from the anvil die and replace it with a new planchet - before the dies came back together.

Speed was critical because workers were paid based on the monetary value of the output.

I realize a small coin like a 1/2 reale can be struck on a rather small press, however, dies coming together without a planchet in between is as common on 1/2 reales coins as it is on 8 reales coins.

Normally a die clash required the dies to be lapped to remove evidence of damage. However, repairs to a die pair carried a negative incentive because of time lost and on small denominations that were made mostly for local usage - repairs were deemed less than critical.

Even a clear die clash was in the past regarded as a detrimental feature that reduced the value of the coin because it represented damage to the die. However, more recently some collectors have become interested in clear clash impressions and pay a premium for them. I believe this because some older US coins have similar clashes and the belief that Mexican coins with clashes are rare has "spilled over" from US collectors.

In Mexican Mints clashes were somewhat common. I would draw an analogy with modern press errors (off center, large clips, double strikes , etc.) which are also far more common from the Mexico City mint than from the US mints. Values of Mexican mint errors lag FAR behind the same error seen on US coins - just check ebay auctions.
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 Posted 02/03/2016  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"In Mexican Mints (die) clashes were somewhat common."

Yes... seen on pillar and portrait, stretching into the Cap & Rays... Seen on the coinage of the other colonial mints as well.
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