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 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,441 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1211 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
937 Posts |
Okay I do not collect these or know much about them.
Is not Sheffield a counterfeit?
Heritage would list as such if it was, correct?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1757 Posts |
This appears to be a backdated Ag electrodeposited issue. Something new that Heritage would not pick up on since nothing of these types have been formally written about in a book yet. With this type the silvering is thinner and in high magnification for this Heritage piece there appears to be surface peeling. In my new book we take this new counterfeiting process to the period in and around 1844-1845 (i.e., when the technology first was developed and appeared in the marketplace) so its either genuine or a backdated forgery. If anyone here buys it - FREE ANALYSIS and P&H on me. BOTH WAYS. I can't buy everything ... LOL.
John Lorenzo
United States
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
BTW see my E-Bay listing Sunday night 10 PM EST for a UNIQUE GNL Class 1 in German Silver from the infamous "Rizo" of Puerto Rico ... Seller: johnmenc
JPL
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
My quick impression of the coin is regal. Some kind of funky surface tone/shallow deposit going on, but the surfaces (and design elements) underneath it look like typical Guatemala, with that slight reflectivity.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Unfortunately my Eric P. Newman is in a slab (i.e., unable for Material Analysis through the plastic) but there is some unusual 1821 Zs pieces out there ... to what extent they are regal, GNL Class 1's and/or how many are silver electrodeposited types (if any) I am not sure ...
I like the word FUNKY here ... its most appropriate for these issues ...
JPL
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
John, that 1818 is instead 1816... Fairly common type you (and obviously Bob) will recognize. Several examples:  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Came from Mercedes Rizo as an 1818 counterfeit and when seeing your pics at the right tilting angle under a high light and a loop I do see the end loop to a "6" ... REMOVED - & Will relist tonight at $0.99.
Thanks!
JPL
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Realeswatcher - go to Steve Album's recent sale - just look at this Chihuahua mule. Let me know if you come across any information on Chihuahua mules or pieces being made in the U.S.? Julia Purdy recently came up with some information that Chihuahua coppers were counterfeited in Pittsburgh, USA. Contact her through ebay under seller name Chullie to have her send you the U.S. 19thC U.S. Newspaper press clipping. See below for the Album write-up. This Mexican/Canadian token mule has defaulted into being a Canadian Blacksmith ... it did not sell ... Lot 2626 Item 187772 CANADA: AE ½ penny token (6.92g), ND (ca. 1835). Charlton-BL-51, HW-268. Blacksmith issue, imitative of the Bouquet Sou obverse with a Chihuahua Republic ¼ real reverse, Very Crude Fine to VF, RRRR, ex Paul Montz Collection. Estimated Value$4,500 - 5,500. Geoffrey Bell Auctions sold an inferior example in September 2012 for $6500 CDN (then $6608 USD) plus 20% buyer's fee. View details and enlarged photos |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
I am relisting tonight and its a Class 3 (1816-zzcl3 MoJJ-RA,RG-009,15,16 & 17) piece - A good study specimen. Starting at $0.99 as before ...
JPL
Edited by colonialjohn
02/23/2016 7:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Interesting piece, John... wasn't aware of such a beast (Blacksmiths are a bit beyond my scope... I have a couple that have found me rather than the other way around).
Regarding the Chihuahua cuartilla end of things, I suppose that being ca. 1835, these are obviously counterfeits of the 1833-35 series (not the late 1846,55,56 type). I've never really noticed any obvious counterfeits of the 1833-35 style... and the 1833-35 series strikes me as being less crude and having less variety than the 1846,55,56 type, so I'd probably notice if I came across any (they are always in crummy shape, though). I'm certainly no expert on them, though.
Of course, there were lots of counterfeits of the 1830s Mexico City cuartillas, so certainly possible. Will keep my eye out. Have you asked Max Keech or similar about whether there is any known Mexican/SW USA circulation of such Chihuahua counterfeits?
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Posted 02/16/2016 2:23 pm
