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 Replies: 35 / Views: 5,051 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2403 Posts |
Funny this came up today. I had someone email me pics of 20 Morgan dollars and a 1949 half dollar. They were all circulated and no CC's. I looked at the dates as well((no Key) but couldn't grade from pics he sent me. He said he wanted to sell them all in one lot so I offered him $17.00 each for the Dollars and $5.00 for the half. Was this too low or to high? |
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Valued Member
United States
343 Posts |
I would say those are decent prices, my LCS is probably a touch higher on both.
I understand they have to make profit, but it seems to me they lowball a lot of people. Those people not knowing what what they have is worth makes it possible. That's why I like the guy at my LCS, I've heard him tell an old lady 'Well each of these is worth about $15.' I imagine Morgans, I couldn't see what she had. Pretty sure he ended up giving her $14 each for his margin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
757 Posts |
Let me play devil's advocate. Had this person offered the coin to you at the quoted price would you have told them no they are worth way more, or would you have bought them and came here posting about the amazing deal you got?
Running a business has a lot of cost the general public doesn't ever consider. The fact there is a second employee means they have to carry a workers disability insurance policy which could easily run a few thousand dollars a years. Not to mention the liability insurance for those slip and fall claims, and the insurance for the stock. Depending on the amount of stock and employees the store owner could easily be paying $5000+ just for insurance. Then you have to factor in rent, taxes, payroll, utilities, ect and now that evil lowballing shop owner is putting out 10's of thousands of dollars just to keep the doors open. Was it a bad offer? I can't say as I don't know what his expenses are and where he needs to be percentage wise on buy/sell to keep his light on.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Something to remember is that the 'clerk' working with the older gal may have not had a clue how much Morgan's were really worth, other than knowing they had a stack of them for sale at $24.
I managed a Pawn Shop for many years, and I was usually able to have one person who knew jewelry well, one that knew guns and weapons, one that knew sports cards and memorabilia, and I knew coins and had a rough knowledge in the other fields since I often had to approve an offer. In most instances it was virtually impossible for each of us to know a great deal about other areas.
I had almost zero interest in sports cards, although we sold low 5 figures in sales with them every month (including the memorabilia).
Just because someone is standing behind the counter, you can't really know if they have a firm grasp of the value of particular items, or not.
Although, saying the there were millions of Morgans is true, the fact that no one collects them is not.
Those who know expect everyone should know, which is often not the case.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4594 Posts |
There's a small suspicion that Pop doesn't know what Mom is doing. And there is an opportunity to intervene without making trouble. "Ma'am, I couldn't help but overhear and I'm sorry for your troubles. If you are selling your husband's coins, there is a book here (the Red Book) that I'd like to buy for you. Now the prices in there are retail, what you would pay to buy the coin in this fine shop, so they will offer you less... but at least you can be sure which are the $10 and which are the $500 coins." -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Valued Member
United States
398 Posts |
Unethical for a Customer to interfere during a business transaction while happening at a place of business ...... No matter how wrong you feel the transaction is, you should not interfere .....
Immediately offering to buy the coins at a slightly higher price with the Seller still present would of been the best play and see if you can take advantage of the misfortune and if so inclined, buy the whole lot and then offer the Seller some additional monies on the side ....
Remember the Shop is paying rent / insurance / lights and they have a ton of money just sitting there, they have every right to make a profit for their efforts ..... Unfortunate some take it too far!
Edited by LocalCoinGuy
02/21/2016 4:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4594 Posts |
How is it unethical to prevent elder abuse? I didn't agree to a code of ethics to enter their shop. They can always throw me out... the only code of ethics I did agree to is this one: Quote:
As a member of the American Numismatic Association, I agree to comply with the
following standards of conduct:
-To support and be governed by the Federal Charter and the bylaws of the Association, and by
such rules, policies and regulations as may be in force from time to time.
-To conduct myself so as to bring no reproach or discredit to the Association, or impair the
prestige of the membership therein.
-To base all of my dealings on the highest plane of justice, fairness and morality, and to refrain
from making false statements as to the condition of a coin or as to any other matter.
-To neither buy nor sell numismatic items of which the ownership is questionable.
-To conform to the accepted standards of dignified advertising.
-To take immediate steps to correct any error I may make in any transaction.
-Not to sell, exhibit, produce or advertise a counterfeit, copy, restrike or reproduction of any
numismatic item if its nature is not clearly indicated by the word "counterfeit," "copy,"
"restrike," or "reproduction," incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof, with the
exception of items generally accepted by numismatists and not in any way misrepresented
as genuine.
-To represent a numismatic item to be genuine only when, to the best of my knowledge and belief,
it is authentic.
-To fulfill all contracts made by me, either oral or written, to make prompt payments upon
delivery and to return immediately any item that is not satisfactory.
-To give aid to members in their quest for numismatic knowledge.
-To comply with the Dealer Code of Ethics with respect to my sale or purchase of any numismatic
item. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Already been sort of said. Most people just don't realize how much it costs to have any kind of store. And if you own the building, even worse. The list of expendatures an owner must contend with is massive.
To start with there is Electric, water and sewage, phone, faxes, gas, display cases, building maintenance and on and on and on. Then too there is those property taxes. And still most people don't realize that the owner of any store has a family and the same expendatures go with that. The store owner usually has a car and that car needs maintenace as well as gas.
ALL of this comes from the sales of his product which in the case of a coin store, the sale of coins and coin related items.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
509 Posts |
I agree on the cost of running business and not interfering with a deal in progress... BUT it might have been a good chance for you to cherry pick some of the new Morgan's before they get looked at by the owner/dealer. And this "old lady" example is a good reminder to everyone that isn't planning on being buried with their collection to keep an updated ball park price list where your loved ones can find it, so your family isn't the old lady in the future. It might be good to keep a couple of trusted dealers #'s with it as well.. I've been at my LCS before and a widower calls periodically and he tells her price on monster box of ASE because her husband did very well on silver during the years, but unexpectingly passed away holding on to a couple monster boxes that he bought at $30+ an ounce. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1314 Posts |
I used to be a gun dealer that worked 52 shows a year. I learned a few things. Sometimes the dealer knows things the causal observer doesn't. I've seen dealers purchase a kings ransom in goods for just a few dollars. Then turn around and return them to the rightful owner.
At my local coin shop, I've seen people sell jewelry by weight, that was base metal and fraudulently marked. And I've seen people come in and sell small collections. And considering the overhead, I would say the customer did rather well. Once they left, I might tell the owner I was interested in the collection. He's been known to take out the few pieces that were of interest to him and then wholesale the rest to me at a very attractive price. Win, win, win.
If on the other hand you are uncomfortable with a dealers ethics, don't go there. Like so many other areas, reputation means a lot, and people talk. His business will suffer in the long haul.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
I worked in a pawnbrokers and my boss made it quite clear what I was to offer for scrap gold and silver...diamonds too. Given that it was my bosses money what could I do but comply?
The salesperson would have been in a similar position, and given the running expenses of a store, the occasions when things turn out to be not what they are supposed to be and that capital can quickly be tied up on items that are hard to move who are we to say the boss is wrong asking to have things in his/her favour by trying to buy cheap and sell expensive. As much as this seems abhorrent to us it is a simple fact of life that the seller in this spot is negotiating from a position of weakness.
The shoe has been on the other foot for me too, I sold a Cartier watch to a jewellers for considerably more that it was worth. I negotiated the value upwards significantly saying I had been offered more elsewhere and that it was a desirable model with easy profit still left in it but that I needed the money for an emergency. I was neglecting to tell them that it had a faulty circuit-board that was no longer in production. These places win some and they lose some, the winners must pay for the losers.
Also if a customer ever tried to interfere in a sale or purchase with another customer they should expect to receive a good telling off. Undercutting a sale, or outbidding the dealer would be less ethical to the dealer than him putting a bad offer to a customer since they can walk away and he has paid to be there, you have not.
Edited by DavidUK
02/22/2016 10:07 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1211 Posts |
Several responses in this thread are so unrealistic and out of touch that it is hard to believe...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3216 Posts |
I've read this entire thread and it really comes down to this. Nobody at the coin shop twisted this woman's arm to sell. She could have just as easily walked away and found another place to shop her coins. She ultimately accepted the deal and it was done. Her choice totally. The shop assistant offered her a price he felt the shop could pay. Whether we think it's a good deal or not is irrelevant. Both parties walked away happy. Now, it's your choice to go back or not. I'm completely on board with that, I'd have to have been there to decided if I could justify going back. But the bottom line here is that NOTHING unethical was done. Dealer offered a price, it was accepted and that's it.
If that leaves a bad taste in your mouth then don't revisit this store. There are so many other ways to buy coins. But nothing unethical was done.
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Valued Member
262 Posts |
It's true and it really is the nature of the beast. I mean everyone knows that coin shops, pawn shops, etc will pay much less then anything is worth. If you have the time and not in an emergency situation It is always better to sell Privately on CL or something. It does suck that shops like that rip people off and angers me but it's unfortunate and at the same time they do have overhead costs and it is not cheap to keep a business up and running. She didn't HAVE TO sell the coins to them, she could have walked. So in the end even though you overheard and knew it wasn't a fair price, it was her decision.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3843 Posts |
Thanks for the responses everyone. My main problem with the dealer is not about the price. It is they way he talked down the items in order to get the sale. From what I saw he didn't check the mintmarks and only took a quick glance at the coins before he decided what the shop would offer. They weren't culls, some looked fairly close to AU. From what I've gathered from other local dealers, Morgan dollars sell very quickly and if they didn't there are many wholesale dealers out there that pay strong prices due to their popularity. The dealer was stretching the truth (if not outright lying) when he said that the old lady's coins would not sell well and were out of favor with collectors. Lowball away, but don't tell fabrications to pressure opposite party to the transaction. |
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Replies: 35 / Views: 5,051 |
First Page
Posted 02/20/2016 07:24 am
