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 Replies: 17 / Views: 3,073 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3656 Posts |
Came across this today and was checking the page on Double Die, I think it's a good DDO (but only you all know how to determine if it is DDO or MD) Keeping my fingers/toes and anything else that crosses for a good outcome - Thanks for looking.    |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Note that it starts on the edge of the bust. Then you see one color. That tells me it is machine damage during the strike. If it were a doubled die, you would see the color change. (showing it was rounded) Here I shat you would see on hub doubling on the die:  Note the two changes in color form light to dark. That shows it is on the die because there is a doubled bust area on the die. When you see the single color then it is flat shelf like looking. Here is another example showing the difference side by side:  The one on the left is the true doubled die, the one on the right is machine damage during the strike, flattening the edge of the bust. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
740 Posts |
Coop that last image is  Really good example. CoinCents: It took me a while to see DD vs. MD. When it clicks it becomes a lot more obvious. With DD clues are: 1. If you see a thickening in the device vs the normal design. 2. If you see a split in the design/letters. (Look at serifs on DDs to get an idea) 3. Doubling is the same height as other devices. MD clues: 1. The "doubling" is lower than the other devices. (Often pointed out as shelf-like) 2. The devices are the same size as a normal coin. Imagine what a letter looks without the doubled portion. Does it look normal or smaller than the regular font? If the letter would look strange or smaller than normal it is MD. Die Deterioration clues: 1. Check for VLDS around the coin. (wrinkles/starburst effect) 2. Obverse and Reverse are often affected together. 3. Doubling is distorted/all around the whole device. Letters are often look outlined Edited by BlueSolo
02/27/2016 9:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
Too bad on this one. Better luck on the next one. It will happen.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
Quote:
Doubling is the same height as other devices Look at Coop's side by side pic with this in mind, you will see the difference easily. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2824 Posts |
I found Coop's suggestion on the color change from light to dark versus light is a good way to tell under a loupe. object doubled with extra light MD with extra shaded possible DDO or a clash. I find sometimes all I can see is the difference from all light or range of color say at LCS or show cherry picking without the USB scope or macro lens or microscope objective to help. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Machine damage see to not always be at the bottom of the devices. Most of the time is part way up on the devices.  Again not the flatten MD area on this 3-D image show the one color on the affected area. Other area maybe light to dark colored, but they are part of the unaffected areas. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3656 Posts |
Thank you all, I know you are tired of trying to get this through my THICK skull. The pictures are amazing, I just can't get a view like that. I found a 1994P tonight, here is the picture so I am assuming the same thing, MD or is this just from a strong strike because there's not much of a spread (normal coin)?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
CC, everyone starts out with a thick skull, so no worries. This one is MD also. It is flat and the height of it is not as tall as the area next to it. It was caused by extra movement of the die at the time of the strike,
In the future, you should start a new thread with each new coin for discussion.
Edited by CoinMasters
02/29/2016 7:24 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3656 Posts |
Thanks again CM, Sorry forgot about that I was thinking same subject matter instead of same coin.
Sorry I do not know how to do the quote thing. but you said
" It is flat and the height of it is not as tall as the area next to it" is this what you mean?
Each set of lips should be the same height from the field of the coin? Is that what I am not getting?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
Yes. If it was a Doubled Die, it would be the same height from the field and rounded at the edge. Instead it is about one half the height of the area next to it, and is all "one color" (not rounded).
Edited by CoinMasters
02/29/2016 8:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3656 Posts |
Thank you, I understand that a lot better now  I really appreciate it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
740 Posts |
For this example, imagine you are looking at a coin from the edge. The gray line is the plane of the coin, and the gray bumps on the line are devices (think of it as the letter "I")  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
If you are writing you own tag lines you might use something like this:  (for quotes: 'quote' message '/quote' ( brackets [ ] instead of ') to add directly to thread or click on the "Reply to topic" link on bottom of the page to get to the add on formulas. I can't insert the brackets because it will try to post my message. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3656 Posts |
Thanks BlueSolo, I am working at getting my regular camera set up tonight so I can experiment with taking the picture from the edge. That was obviously what coop did in the example picture above, which was a great photo. I have 1995P 1DO-001 LMC from Sudz so I will look at that and see if I can tell the difference in the height as you all have mentioned. I am so looking forward to getting this figured out. Coop, thanks for the tip on doing the quote. I will have to try that out tomorrow. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
740 Posts |
CoinCents: By the way, that image of the 1957 Wheat cent is from another member that took many photos of the same area of a coin at different angles and then uploaded them to a program that will make a 3D model of it. You don't need a complicated setup like this to verify DD's though :D It will come to you And taking a picture of the edge to get a shot of a DD would be difficult, my image was just for demonstration. As others have said, the easy way to tell the height is the color, or light it reflects. But play around and see what you can find. On the coin Sudz gave you, you shouldn't be able to tell a height difference (since it is DD) but look at thickness, splits in design, and the way the doubled portion reflects light Edited by BlueSolo
03/01/2016 2:37 pm
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,073 |
Posted 02/27/2016 9:06 pm
