| Author |
 Replies: 83 / Views: 8,478 |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Thanks for the link SPP, that's interesting. It appears in UK their government also redefined the term ""legal tender", making acceptance of same at the discretion of banks and businesses. This was aside from ordering banks to discontinue accepting NCLT. No mention of losses arising from counterfeit NCLT but that might've been a factor. I also wonder if the wider intent is a transition toward an eventual cashless society. The present legal right granted to us common folk, presently embedded in the Canada Currency Act - a payment of legsl tender "may consist of not more than one coin" of value greater than $10. In Canada, no coin other than NCLT has ever been issued greater than $10 that I can think. Legal Tender 2.1 http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...e-1.html#h-5For anyone who's put substantial savings into XforX, it might be a good time for a talk with your RCM rep. If you're given the impression there's "no risk" in XforX, if it were me I'd be asking for a written lifetime guarantee of redemption at full value... |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
To my understanding, the RCM Boutiques will honour the $x for $x coins at face value for purchases made there. So basically you can trade them in for other, more expensive coins with a lesser face value than cost. Or also to my understanding, but not personally confirmed, rolls of coins can be bought at the boutiques, also at face value. So I suppose that if you happen to live near one of them, you could cash them in for an insane amount of circulation coins, which any bank would be happy to except. After all, it would certainly look foolish if the mint, who issues these coins, does not consider them as valid as paper/polymer. This controversy over $ for $ is nothing new. I'm certain that many people will continue to buy them as they do other NCLT coins. No one is complaining about trying to cash in a glass ladybug or superman gold at face value that I'm aware of. It's a cheap way to get new collectors into the hobby. A little misleading, yes, but it's the gateway to 1/2 kilo silver coins, gold pennies, etc. It won't be in my lifetime almost certainly, but a $20 for $20 will eventually, sometime, in the far distant future be worth more for its metal weight. Perhaps the great grand kids that are still generations away of even being thought of will be able to redeem them for something. Along with a small collection of other NCLTs you have stored in a shoe box someplace. The $x for $x series probably wasn't well thought through considering the new loyalty program can be earned by buying several of each and than cashing them in. That's way these new limits are being established. Ive got an $20 that I'm going to try to take to my local bank just to see for myself what plays out. I'm curious to see if they take it or have even had anyone else try there. If they don't, you can alway list it on a buy/sell website and some sucker will buy it. The mint sells out of these coins so there is obviously a market for them. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
If anyone wants to trade a 1912 $10 gold for a roll of circulation quarters, I'll throw in a second roll just because I'm a nice guy.
$10 golds are the highest coin issued for circulation. I wonder if the wording regarding paying with coins is based on them.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2019 Posts |
Quote:
After all, it would certainly look foolish if the mint, who issues these coins, does not consider them as valid as paper/polymer. Ya well The Royal Mint pushed their X for X the same way as the RCM has but now changed it, even telling banks not to accept them now. The normal $5 $ 10 $20 coins that have been issued for many years are not really in question as most of us know that we are paying $100 for a $10 denomination coin with a limited mintage of whatever but mostly 15k or less. The X for X is a different matter, but it is what it is I guess, just more drama in the world of NCLTs. But there is hope for some of the $20 coins....enhancements! $20 Fine Silver Coin TYRANNOSAURUS REX with real Meteorite LOW MINTAGE of 1000 pcs.  http://www.dazzliNGCoins.com/t-rex-...r-coin-2016/ |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
I have serious doubts that the RCM will take banks not to except them. The RCM and UK mint are not affiliated to my knowledge |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
I just don't understand the worry in Canada over mainly these 20 for 20 or similar coins the ad states simply sold at face value with no risk at all, money back guarantee, along with the RCM spokesman boldly announcing an agreement with the banks to redeem all NCLT coins, what else can this mean by the RCM. The RCM could change policy anytime but they will have a grandfather clause for sure and it will probably in the short run kill NCLT sales. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:I have serious doubts that the RCM will take banks not to except them. Consider the fact that RCM created the Face Value Program with the stated goal - to attract new customers into the market of collector coin. It goes without saying what they really hoped to achieve was to increase profit. If their objective is not being met, certainly changes will be made. Every XforX collector coin that gets cashed is obviously an incurred loss to RCM. For example a $20 coin contains only 1/4oz of silver worth less than $5, which they must buy back for $20. Whether we like it or not, RCM can shut down the informal arrangement they have with banks at any time. The fact that XforX NEVER became legal tender in the way that some people initially expected - could be spent just the same as cash, anywhere - is one good reason why. Quote:The RCM and UK mint are not affiliated to my knowledge. The reason the Queen of Englamd's effigy is in every coin is because legally she is still Canada's Head of State. Canada remains a British Commonwealth county and it was The Royal Mint of England that created the Royal Canadian Mint branch, opened in 1908. While not technically affiliated any longer, there's indeed remains a strong connection between us, including the origins of our political and judicial system. A reason, for example, RCM is issuing a NCLT upon the Queen's 90th birthday. Edited by wildflowerAB
04/07/2016 09:49 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
The no risk guarantee only means you can return it if you're not satisfied with it, the same way you can any other NCLT they sell. This come with a time limitation. RCM has never said they would buy them back. NCLT coins are included in the mints annual report, meaning if a $20 coin is sold, $20 has been issued the same way 2 rolls of quarters would be. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
.......meaning if a $20 coin is sold, $20 has been issued the same way 2 rolls of quarters would be.
Sort of. But a $20 roll of quarters is circulation coin, which is different from non-circulating (NCLT). RCM is legally mandated to sell NCLT to the general public but only is allowed to recover the actual cost of minting circulated coin on order from the Bank of Canada. It's the BofC that then "sells" circulated coin to banks at face value. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
I don't see how the $ for $ coins wouldn't be accepted, the same way pre-1968 circulation coins are. I assumed they would be taken the same way old or worn out circulation coins are.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
The two types - circulated coin and non-circulated coin - are different.. Banks are required, under their licence to operate, to accept all circulated coin on deposit since none it's ever been recalled by the Bank of Canada. They're under no obligation to accept non-circualted (collector) coin for cash or deposit. Pre-1967 coin falls under BofC's ARP program as well. At present, non-circulated coin is accepted by banks only becasue RCM has circulated an email providing banks instructions on how to go about redeeming it from RCM. That informal arrangement has never been underwritten into any form of legislation and "could" be cancelled at any time. * The word I want to use is not "recalled". No Cdn decimal coinage issued for circulation has been demonitized (made worthless) just because it's made from an earlier, different metal content. Edited by wildflowerAB
04/07/2016 11:00 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts |
Quote:At present, non-circulated coin is accepted by banks only becasue RCM has circulated an email providing banks instructions on how to go about redeeming it from RCM. That informal arrangement has never been underwritten into any form of legislation and "could" be cancelled at any time. I think, this correct. Probably this is the catch with NCLT, that banks may do and may not receive them for face value. And only the business regulation between Banks and RCM currently make it possible. For example - bring $5 SML to Bank - with all the profit reason, Bank will be unable to cash it for $5 (face value), and you will get more for it (according to the Bank buy price of the silver). |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
That's right Silveroid. And perhaps one might comsider - why does XForX have to be ordered from RCM or bought from CP. Why when one walks up to a bank teller with a $200 withdrawal aren't we asked "Will that be banknotes or NCLT?" What's the point of banks sending it to RCM for redemption, instead of recirculating it? The reason is because Non-Circulated coin cannot be legally circulated (although certainly some customers may at times buy if they ask about it, if the branch has any on hand that hasn't been shipped out yet.) |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
This 3 year old news article from the UK is interesting, considering their recent turn-a-bout toward refusal for redemption of NCLT through banks. It mirrors the way in which the topic is currently presented in Canada as well. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/r...8630466.html |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The biggest difference between The Royal Mint and RCM is they have their spokesperson and their website clearly announcing their position on these coins, the ads on the 20 for 20 to most buyers is clear the RCM is guaranteeing face value, it doesn't say thirty day manufacturing defects only sounds just like Sears or Eatons slogan for years before they almost went bankrupt, |
| |
Replies: 83 / Views: 8,478 |
First Page
Previous Page
Posted 04/06/2016 11:55 pm
