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1851 Seated Liberty Dollar Question

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LeAnn's Avatar
United States
429 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2008  2:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add LeAnn to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
In going thru a list of coins at auction, can someone tell me what's the variety of the 1851 Seated Liberty dollar? As I read the book, and try to understand, Orig.HighDate there were only 1300 minted? VG-8 is $7,000.00.
What is restrike, dt cntrd? Why only PF-60 & PF-63?
That seems like an awful lot for a one dollar coin? What would it be worth if it is less than VG-8? A dollar? Just trying to figure this out. Any and all help is appreciated.

LeAnn
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2008  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
LeAnn,

These were two very low mintage years for the SL Dollar. 1300 for the 1851 and 1100 for the 1852. The 1851 and 1852 proofs were not struck in in those years. They were struck many years later, hence the designation "restrike" and were only struck in proof. The 1851 has variety called "date-centered". Hope that clears things up a bit.

LeAnn ... here's a Stack's auction for the 1851 restrike that contains the story. http://www.stacks.com/lotdetail.asp...d=AN00004999
Edited by SeatedNut
02/14/2008 3:11 pm
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
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2335 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2008  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not an expert, so this could be totally wrong. From what I can tell, the 1851 SLD had a very low mintage of 1300( RedBook), which explains it's high price. Then, at a later date, there were proof coins minted with the 1851 date(restrikes). It appears that the 1852 & 1858 were also restruck in proof, possibly at the same time?

The January issue of Coins Magazine lists the 1851 as having a fair market value of $4000 in G4, & $4850 in VG8. I'd be very cautious about buying any coin with such a low mintage at auction, it could be a fake.
Valued Member
LeAnn's Avatar
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429 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2008  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LeAnn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the information. SeatedNut the link does not work for me. Is there an easy way to tell if it is fake?
LeAnn

I tried to log onto stacks from yahoo and connection does not work. Either they have a problem or it's me.
LeAnn
Edited by LeAnn
02/14/2008 4:19 pm
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1sikevo's Avatar
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1130 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2008  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1sikevo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
LeAnn,
There is no single method to detect a fake. Most of the time, cast coins look rough and the details are not sharp. Sometimes, the color or details like the shield, Eagle or Liberty just looks funny. Also, you can weigh the coin and measure the diameter to see if it comes close to the standard.
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SeatedNut's Avatar
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2797 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2008  11:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
LeAnn, Here's a cut and paste:


1851 Restrike. Proof-63 Cameo (PCGS).

A pale champagne specimen with frosty motifs, mirrored fields, and a sharp strike. Indeed, the strike couldn't be anything but sharp, as the coin was carefully struck, multiple times in an effort to remove its 1846-dated undertype.

The present coin is clearly and unequivocally struck over a pre-existing silver dollar of an earlier date, in this instance 1846. This seems to be an 1846 Philadelphia Mint dollar, rather than an 1846-O, for there is no trace of a "ghost" O mintmark below the eagle on the reverse (as there is in the case of another 1851 silver dollar restrike, sometimes called a Proof "1851-O." That piece is listed in Guth and Garrett's Top 100 U.S. Coins and was last sold by the Goldberg's in their sale of September 2003).

The present variety, identified by Frank Van Valen of our staff, January 26, 2004 (in case anyone is keeping track!), is the missing link, for the other known overstrike, seemingly has the date undertype blanked out, or such is said to be the case (we would be pleased to examine the other coin to render a modern opinion, if the owner reads this and so desires).

The Restrike 1851 dollars were produced at an unknown time under unknown circumstances, per conventional wisdom by someone on the Mint staff after Spring 1859 when Director James Ross Snowden decided to take commercial advantage of the current growing numismatic interest in patterns, restrikes of earlier dates, and so on, and openly stated that they could be supplied to one's heart's content. However, after spring 1859 the whole matter went underground, and today we can only surmise by examining the coins.

To produce the coin struck here, the minter would have had to use an already struck 1846 dollar on hand, rather than a blank planchet. This might mean that it was produced in some section of the Mint, where planners or someone else kept track of planchets—or otherwise it would have been easy to have used a blank. Alternatively, it could have been an accounting function to use a previously-coined dollar, and not a fresh planchet that would have been purchased with the Mint's Bullion Fund and, thus, kept track of. During the 1850s such arrangements were quite casual, and as Don Taxay and others have said of those working there, the Mint was a "workshop for their gain" during this period, with the activities of Chief Coiner Franklin Peale being particularly egregious in that regard.

The present coin, a superb piece in terms of an 1851 Proof Restrike dollar with centered date, itself a classic rarity, elevates itself to special importance to the collector and historian, joining the "1851-O" dollar earlier mentioned and also a Gobrecht silver dollar discovered by Art Kagin about two decades ago, with obvious striking over a pre-existing 1859 Liberty Seated dollar. How interesting all of this is! With the famed "1851-O" Proof dollar now effectively proven to be an overstrike (as we and many others had previously considered the odds-on explanation, and as cataloguer Ron Guth called "a distinct possibility," leaning that way in his last treatment of the coin), the present piece takes on a significance close to that famed and fascinating item—and that coin realized $276,000 last year! While we do not expect that sort of number to be realized for this very similar specimen, we do know that savvy connoisseurs and those fascinated by the intricate history of the Mint in this period will render a premium bid for this simply lovely 1851 Restrike dollar.

1851-Seated-Liberty-Dollar-Question

1851-Seated-Liberty-Dollar-Question

FYI - the easiest way to eliminate 90% of the counterfeits is by weight. An MS or Proof should weigh 26.73 grams

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