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 Replies: 38 / Views: 5,235 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts |
Weighing it and posting new pics won't make it a real error, I remember seeing it and its PMD. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
737 Posts |
It's not that low and I did some looking around and the CDN Mint has minted coins for 80+ foreign countries since 1908. I'm thinking foreign planchet. I want others opinions as to the percentage of thickness removed; I think it's important data and has to be considered.
It is 'slightly' underweight at 4.70 grams as opposed to 5.05 for this year but what leads me to believe foreign planchet because of the thickness left. It is only .0008 under in thickness (less than 1/1000th of an inch) which wouldn't be the case if it was ground down that much. I will remeasure the thickness but I believe it to be about that.
So you can't simply draw a final conclusion from that especially if the amount of metal required to erase the rim & effigy clean off without trace requires more metal to be removed than that which it actually is. In that case it would be the wrong conclusion to draw. Like I said, I will get back with full specs and I would love it if there was another machinist collector who would hone in on this thread and back me up, he would know what I'm saying even though everyone seems to just floss over those important details. I'm not trying to be stubborn or make it what it is not, I just want the True facts, otherwise, what's the point.
Edited by TaeKenDo
05/19/2016 02:19 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
737 Posts |
As for the missing rim, the shape of the coin up close is like in this photo. So there appears to be some sort of lifting towards the outer edge.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts |
Okay..  and you will get more replies.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2403 Posts |
I am no expert..but have been following this.
What gives me pause is the Swirl effect you can see in the pics on the reverse. This is a very good indicator of a grinding then polishing with small wheel.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts |
The rim was a dead give away also no ghosting or Rim Fin. It did have a swirl effect and that is not something that would be left from another planchet of any kind. Thats all I can remember about it. Edited by Alexer
05/19/2016 02:43 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
737 Posts |
I understand all the criteria and not trying to judge anyone's experience because I'm sure it's sound. I just don't think everything is being considered such as extra metal defying physics & math. I don't see a swirl effect up close but I will throw it under a digital microscope, one of my favorite coin toys (up to 120x magnification) might tell us something.
I will post pics some time tomorrow when it's daylight.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
Good morning Ken. There is absolutely no way this is a legitimate error. As others have stated the rim is a dead give away. If struck with a blank die the rim would still be intact or at least you would see the smeared remains of it. Believe it or not it does not take much material to be removed for this effect. Please very carefully check the remaining rim for marks left from some sort of retaining device. A drilled shallow hole and a grinder can also be used but is much more difficult. The chuck of a small lathe for example or vice grips. Probably the former. I understand your concerns but as with all errors you must see what is there. The rim on one side only is obvious. The light weight you provided would account for the missing elements having been removed. Please measure the thickness of a variety of 25 cent coins and you will see that they vary in thickness by a fair amount. Hope this helps. Regards Mike Marshall
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Pillar of the Community
United States
602 Posts |
What a shame, I would have liked to see the pictures.
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Forum Dad
 United States
24174 Posts |
Quote:
What a shame, I would have liked to see the pictures. Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat....  CCF ebay Tools |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2427 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts |
Not a legitimate error. That weight reduction is enough to account for grinding off one face. Modern circulation coins have extremely low reliefs.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
737 Posts |
1995 Cdn Quarter Specs:
Weight: 5.05 grams
Diameter : 23.88 mm or 0.9402"
Thickness: 1.58 mm or 0.0622"
Missing Obv.Specs:
Weight: 4.75 grams
Diameter : 23.8252 mm or 0.9380"
Thickness: 1.3208 mm or 0.0520"
DIFF Specs:
Weight: 0.30 grams (1/17th Diff.)
Diameter : 0.0559mm or 0.0022" (1/427th Diff.)
Thickness: 0.2591mm or 0.0102" (1/6th Diff.)
If 1/6th the thickness is removed, you would expect 1/6th or so of the weight to drop which isn't the case, it's drops by only 1/17th. Doesn't add up. Atomic weights are a constant. The metal of the coin is .60 and you remove 1/6th of the coin either sideways, from the center, or from the top down, the weight will decrease by .10
In this case, the thickness decreased by 1/6th but the weight by only 1/17th. The emptiness of the fields could account for this but I don't believe it's enough metal to make up the 3 to 1 difference. This leads me to believe that it was a possibly a thinner 'foreign ' planchet to begin with and not a Cdn 25 cents planchet.
However, there is still the missing raised rim problem as others has pointed out. There is what appears to be an attempt at a rim because the coin does rise slightly near the rim and there is a very faint band of a rim around the entire obv.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2187 Posts |
I think the obverse devices do make up ~1/3 rd of the surface area, and so the emptiness of the fields is enough to only cut the weight by 1/17th rather than 1/6th.
But a general thought, why not get it certified? Send it in to CCCS and if they certify it, you'll be making way more than you could selling it raw (as it's legitimacy sits at the moment). Just my opinion
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Moderator
Canada
10460 Posts |
It is impossible to have one side appear as a Type 1 planchet and the other side to have a raised, square rim (meaning it was a Type 2 planchet, struck in collar). Although we cannot see it, I suspect the rim still has its edge reeding, which only solidifies it being a post-mint altered coin.
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Replies: 38 / Views: 5,235 |
First Page
Posted 05/19/2016 02:18 am
