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2016-P Roosevelt Dime With Incuse Trails

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CoinMasters's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2016  9:17 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
There are numerous incuse trails emanating from devices. I think there must have been some horizontal movement (upon release) as the hub was receiving it's face. I have three dimes like this, got them all at the same time. This one was the strongest, I am sure there are others out there even stronger. I am a novice photographer with an inexpensive camera, so if some appear raised, it's probably because of handshake. I was able to semi-capture the following incuse trails. There are plenty more on the coin and all are longer and stronger than my pictures show. This Variety/Error is unique to me. What do you think?


2016-P-Roosevelt-Dime-With-Incuse-Trails
oops! I forgot to crop this one. No worries though, the reverse is what matters.


2016-P-Roosevelt-Dime-With-Incuse-Trails

2016-P-Roosevelt-Dime-With-Incuse-Trails

2016-P-Roosevelt-Dime-With-Incuse-Trails

2016-P-Roosevelt-Dime-With-Incuse-Trails

2016-P-Roosevelt-Dime-With-Incuse-Trails
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2016  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Search for Trail Dies.

I don't think these add value, but I also (from what I've read) don't think the mechanism that is causing it is well understood.
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Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2016  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Trail Dies are raised.
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CoinCents's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2016  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a beautiful coin to me. I wish I was able to contribute. So are the normal raised Trail Dies from Vertical movement on release?
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2016  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, only they are made at a later stage in the minting process - when the die receives it's face from the hub.
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 Posted 06/16/2016  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Horizontal movement
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CoinCents's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2016  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really wish I knew all that stuff, how long have you been in the hobby?
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2016  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On a Trail die, the die strikes the coin giving it the coin all design elements, but scrapes horizontally against the hub upon release. That gives the die recessed trails which impart raised trails on the coins it later strikes.
So.. to have incuse trails on the coin, the die would have to have raised trails. It stands to reason for the die to have raised trails, the hub must have had horizontal contact with the Master hub that gave it it's face.
Hopefully an expert will weigh in. If my theory is correct, I have discovered a new Variety/Error. If that is the case, I think I will name it the Bizarro Effect. lol
About a year and a half. You can learn a lot in little time as long as it interests you. Learning the minting processes helps a lot.
Edited by CoinMasters
06/16/2016 11:08 pm
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CoinCents's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2016  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That would be fantastic to have discovered such a unique variety - I'll be rooting for you.

You sure have learned a lot in a short time, I have already been doing this for 8 months and have barely scratched the surface. I have read many many many times on the US mint website along with the pages on Wexler's and coop has put in a ton of great educational stuff on my posts. Just can't grasp it all yet. I really love it though.

I am looking forward to the experts comments on your dime.
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2016  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a lot to take in all at one time. For me, I have to see a lot of things a few times. The more you post coins, the quicker you learn, because overall, your own coins interest you most.
When I started, I concentrated on differentiating anomalies on coins. I soon learned understanding mint processes is helpful.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 06/17/2016  02:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is nice to see a new die. A lot of the dimes from 2015-P posted here show a lot of die wear on them. I would save it just for the die state.
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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 Posted 06/17/2016  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a pretty die die state. I went ahead and cropped the first pic.

2016-P-Roosevelt-Dime-With-Incuse-Trails
The coin has a few scratches. I believe the reverse die has some raised trails. Maybe I should send this one to ANACS?
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 06/17/2016  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can even have trails coming off devices:
2016-P-Roosevelt-Dime-With-Incuse-Trails

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BJ Neff's Avatar
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 Posted 06/17/2016  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BJ Neff to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry that I have not been on the forum as of late. Just a lot of things happening; some good, some bad.

As to the incused trail lines. They are more than likely from a working hub that had trails, that then made working dies.

I first hypotheses this idea awhile back when incused trail lines were found on the Lincoln cents. For further information, check this link:

[urlhttp://www.traildies.com/working-hubs-with-trails/][/url]

BJ Neff
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 06/17/2016  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Learn something new everyday.

I think I've seen that Shield initials hub trails before. They are probably more common because the hubs would make several dies. Thus there would be more of these than trails on just one die.
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 Posted 06/17/2016  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Glad you're back BJ. I was starting to doubt my own self. My afore stated hypotheses concurs exactly with yours (I read your link). Unfortunately for me, there will be no Bizarro Trails, because of the prior existence of the Anti Trails. I will revel however, as the discoverer of the 2016-P 10C Anti Trail Die. By the way, I continue to find new regular Trail Dies, including a 2014-P 5C DER Major Trail Die with Wavy Steps. I also have one on the obverse and one with trails at three different off-sets, yep, three different off-sets. I don't post them here anymore because I have posted so many already. If you like, I'll send some your way for your website. Ah ha, I am the discoverer of a new Variety/Error Die!
Coop, it is my sincere pleasure to have taught you something for a change.
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