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A Question About Grading

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jaxenro's Avatar
United States
533 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2016  4:12 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jaxenro to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I see some MS62 or so Morgans heavily bag marked and some AU58 that honestly look a lot nicer. Why does the one get a 58 and the other a 62? Do bag marks not count because it was never circulated?
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
United States
4337 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2016  4:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
if there is no circulation wear the coin has not been circulated
bag marks on MS coins are not considered circulation wear
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 07/12/2016  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Right. Coins graded AU-58 in any series are often more attractive than those graded MS60 up to even MS63.
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jaxenro's Avatar
United States
533 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2016  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jaxenro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So when dealing with slabbed coins do you buy the grade or the coin? I would think the coin?
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2016  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Always buy the coin irregardless of what the holder says. Interestingly enough a lot of classic coins graded by PCGS and NGC in the 1980s as AU58 , will come back today as MS 61 or 62 .
An example , a coin I was half owner with a Vancouver coin dealer a few years back was in a PCGS rattler ( 1894 Morgan) as AU 58. He being a PCGS distributor walked it through at an ANA show and it came out as an MS61 PCGS. Nice profit if you can do that every day.
Grade flation is rampant amongst the top services the last few years.
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ace_ftw's Avatar
Canada
1747 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2016  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ace_ftw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Really you could compare it to reading a tape measure, and asking if that is 3/32nds or 1/8th really the AU58 and low MS are that close to each other. Always buy the coin not the holder.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 07/12/2016  7:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the problem: If a TPG determines a coin is "uncirculated", then the surface condition and marks become paramount in the grade decision. But if a TPG detects even a trace of circulation (58), these marks become secondary, and even an apparent 64 or 65 falls to the high AU level. The valuation discrepancy between super AUs and medium and especially upper-grade MS coins will always exist, I'm afraid.
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United States
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 Posted 07/12/2016  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LibertyEagle20 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Long story short it sounds like you can get an almost 64/65 for a 58 price if you have a good eye :)
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jaxenro's Avatar
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533 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2016  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jaxenro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hadn't been looking at graded 58's until recently think I'm gonna start
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T-BOP's Avatar
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2016  7:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It all has to do with the amount of bag marks and other issues on a coin that has no wear. contrary to the AU-55 or 58 that has minimal wear but clean of all issues .
I am one that would buy a 58 over a 60-62 any day of the week . It's all in the eye appeal .
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4591 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2016  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bag marks are not wear - they can impact the grade: a heavily marked coin or one with marks that are especially distracting will have a lower grade.

AU58 coins are in beautiful condition with very slight wear on the highest points.

So an AU58 coin often looks a lot better than it's MS60 or MS61 canine cousin.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
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Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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GR58's Avatar
United States
11951 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2016  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep ... AU 58 most times looks better than low MS ...

Welcome to coin collecting .....
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billjones's Avatar
United States
1499 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2016  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billjones to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are some us who are willing to pay the same price or more for a really choice an smooth AU-58 than an hacked up MS-60, 61 or 62. What you have noticed is something that veteran collectors have learned over the years.

When I was shopping for some early double eagle type coins many years ago (before slabs), I swear some of the coins I saw had been hacked with an ice pick intentionally. The thinking seemed to go like this. "This coin is a AU. How about if I hack up the rubbed surfaces so that you can't see the rub any more and call it Unc. Do you think that will work?"

For some buyers I'd say, "yes!"
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jaxenro's Avatar
United States
533 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2016  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jaxenro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So I am thinking unless I step up for a nice MS64 for the price I am going to look at some clean AU58 Morgans. Especially in the common dates I would rather pay $35 or so for a clean AU58.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2016  6:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a complicated subject. If your primary goal is a good-looking coin, then AU-58s are a great way to go.

But AU-58s, even choice ones, will always be AU-58s, and so the upside price potential is probably compromised, much like the case with their beat-up MS60-62 cousins.

If you have an eye to investment (especially in the market-glutted Morgan series), you will need to focus on scarcer dates in higher grades as a rule.

Start slowly and study before you commit - many common TPG 64s can be had for very little money, for good reason.

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jaxenro's Avatar
United States
533 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2016  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jaxenro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't buy to invest so much as because I enjoy Morgans and want the best coin for the $ I can get. I don't want something that will lose value over time but neither am I expecting to make money on this. Hold their own with inflation is good enough for me
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