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How Can This Be An MS 65.

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priorpence's Avatar
Canada
148 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  5:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add priorpence to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I see big contact marks on her cheeks and a few on her nose, very distracting. I also see the hair on QE to appear very flat (poor strike?). Strike two in my books, any opinions appreciated. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1966-LB-ICCS...AOSwv0tU6jpd
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5404 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Prior pence. Agree....even though there are super nice fields and a pleasing look, when you are drawn to that cheek gash you have to wonder. A coin for someone who buys the holder not the coin. IMHO a 64 at best.
The grading on dollars has been slipping for some time now at ICCS. Makes one believe they have adapted to PCGS and NGC market grading.
If there was a market for Canadian Coins right now , there would be a lot of opportunity to make money off of resubs from older 2 letter holders.
Edited by Pacificoin
07/18/2016 5:47 pm
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Am I incorrect that the "book" value on this issue at MS63 is about $30 Canadian? So over 20X that for an "MS65"? Very iffy at best.

Colligo ergo sum
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priorpence's Avatar
Canada
148 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  7:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add priorpence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree Pacificoin I have a number of Two digit holders, have to take a look. May be time to send some borderline gems in I am also trying to understand as I have a number of QE silver dollars from that era that could match that example or better, I have often in my mind relegated them to bullion value. So I look with a new eye. Am I correct in seeing what looks like a weak strike (flattened hair)?
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those "Hits" to HM's face may have happened Post grading.
These ICCS holders are pretty flimsy compared to a regular slab and if something is dropped on the holder inadvertently it Will cause damage to the coin.
From my limited experience ICCS is pretty "Tough" on its grading and I don't think that they would have graded this at MS65 with that gouge and other hits on the face.
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GregJG's Avatar
Canada
257 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GregJG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Lucky Cuss
Most coin dealers and buyers/sellers go by the Canadian coin trends newspaper which has these prices for a 1966 Large beads.
MS-63 $29, MS-64 $60, MS-65 $650 (of course I'm talking CAD)
I agree the price difference is crazy and it's all up to what you're willing to pay.
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Everest's Avatar
Taiwan
606 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Everest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ICCS prefers clean fields as this coin has so a 65 is somewhat understandable but
the gash on the check is very disturbing and just jumps out at you. I would not want
this coin at 64 money. IMO PCGS would grade this as a 64 as they place more
emphasis on the high relief of the coin.
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 07/18/2016  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would not even pay 63 money. You could look through dealers stock and cherry pick better for about 17 to 18 dollars CAD.
@Priorpence the hair bun weakness is a very common occurrence in the 1965 through 1967 Large bead bust. Probably a result of too high of a relief. The striking difficulties continued with 1968 nickel dollars as well.
Full strike 1965 through 1967 are very hard to find .
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of the reasons why I like to examine every coin in hand before deciding to buy.
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  9:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS63 to MS65, ICCS basically grades the fields only of the obverse only.

Remember 'only' this and you'll start understanding their grades.
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
MS-63 $29, MS-64 $60, MS-65 $650


Thus an instance of overgrading becomes a very expensive mistake for somebody else....

If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I want a coin to dazzle me. I'm hard pressed to see any dazzle factor in this case.

Colligo ergo sum
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Pokermandude's Avatar
Canada
1192 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2016  10:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Playing devil's advocate..

The coin could have an outstanding strike and lustre, enough to make up for that focal point mark, and still be a "true" MS-65. Impossible to tell by that scan though.
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priorpence's Avatar
Canada
148 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2016  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add priorpence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Pacificoin for the info it is one of those anomalies that helps broaden my knowledge base.
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mdpmedia's Avatar
United States
3546 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2016  06:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 63 limiting factor area:

How-Can-This-Be-An-MS-65.

I would never pay 64 money on this one.

IMO
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SHAFTA9a's Avatar
Canada
10743 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2016  06:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I would never pay 64 money on this one.


I agree, let alone 65
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Canada
1461 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2016  3:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheCoinHunter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's impossible to judge these fields from a dulled out picture. Undoubtedly the eye appeal is poor and PCGS would penalize this coin because of its methodology of larger emphasis on effigy but it doesn't necessarily mean this coin is over-graded based on current criteria ICCS uses. Not paying the price on eye appeal is one thing, graded is another. Last but not least, later year common dollars in MS65 are currently selling in the 40% range at retail (even lower for 50 cent pieces. $300 would only be starting price for a good coin in this market and eye appeal would decide how much below that it would go.
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