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Privately Made? VAM Varieties

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MontCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 07/22/2016  02:10 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was reading about "privately made" VAMs on VAM World. Even though these are counterfeit coins, from what I understand, they seem to be worth quite a bit.

Who made them? VAM World says they are all made by the same counterfeiter.

What makes these counterfeits valuable while other counterfeits are worthless? Is the counterfeiter a famous artist or something?

Is there an easy way of spotting these counterfeits over others?

Anyone got one?

Thanks again...Mont.
Edited by MontCollector
07/22/2016 02:12 am
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nss-52's Avatar
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 Posted 07/22/2016  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are (at least) two schools of thought on counterfeits.

1) All counterfeits are bad and should be destroyed.
2) Counterfeits are collectible.

Some people in the second class don't care if they are "privately made", made in China, made yesterday, or around the time the coins were made, made by mint officials, made on old mint equipment, are marked "COPY" or not, are fantasy coins, are illegal or not. Those that like them may think they "are interesting", may think they could never obtain a genuine example, or lots of other reasons for collecting them.
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AU90o's Avatar
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 Posted 07/22/2016  4:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AU90o to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What makes these counterfeits valuable while other counterfeits are worthless?


They are a part of TOP100 and famous in their own rights. And beside, other counterfeit such as Chinese knockoffs, etc are not real silver. You can read more about them here:

http://www.PCGS.com/News/PCGS-Annou...896-o-1900-o

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MontCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 07/22/2016  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys.

@AU90o- Great article answered all my questions and more.
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Cascade's Avatar
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 Posted 07/22/2016  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Messydesk has a cool theory involving the mob in New Orleans in the early 1900s and a rouge ex mint employee.

The reason they are valuable is due to the fact that they were so well made, intended to pass as authentic coins back in the day, tpgs were fooled by them for years until a big batch was sent in and the did a study plus the mysterious origins. The true rarity today though is to either find a mint state example or one in TPG plastic. Most collectors with one in plastic intent to be be buried with them so they don't surface much.
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 Posted 07/22/2016  9:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add messydesk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The big difference between the contemporary counterfeits and the Modern Chinese Crap, is that the contemporary counterfeits were made by people who wanted to pass them off as circulating coins at the time they were made, while MCC is just mass-produced to deceive collectors. Contemporary counterfeits of all types are considered collectible, and the story behind them often adds to their coolness when known. If you are at the ANA show, go to Dave Wnuck's table, and he'll have a bunch of contemporary counterfeits far more crude than the Morgans.

The fascinating thing about the Micro O counterfeit family is that even though individual coins are scarce, more die pairs are being discovered all the time. Four were discovered between June 2015 and June 2016, bringing the number of die marriages up to 31. These discoveries can almost all be traced to "The Family" through die marriages and re-marriages. There are a few assumed to be part of The Family just because the characteristics of the coins are so similar.

My theory regarding their manufacture is based entirely upon observations on coins and speculation. I'm guessing that that it started shortly after the New Orleans mint stopped making silver dollars in 1904. There is a single 1896-O that I have seen that is engraved "1905" on the obverse. Between 1905 and 1915, the amount of silver needed to make a silver dollar was between 40 and 50 cents' worth. To make coins from 30 die pairs required people that could make fake dies capable of striking coins, store them, procure Sterling silver (these coins test as Sterling), produce planchets, make the coins, distribute them discretely, and do this with high enough volume to make a sizable profit, since there was significant risk in getting caught and hefty penalties to be paid.

New Orleans was a hotbed of Mafia activity in the early 1900s. Take a look at Wikipedia for some background info. If there was a counterfeiting operation as big as this one had to be to cover the risk/reward spread, the mob was going to be involved. Someone that was downsized from the mint in its waning years may have been made an "employment" offer to get the operation running smoothly. Laundering the finished product into circulation would be facilitated through mob-run gambling operations, that local law enforcement either didn't know about or "didn't know about (wink wink)."

We really don't know how many coins were made, but it's plausible that the number is on the order of 500,000 or more. The surviving population is too big for there to have been only 50,000. An interesting observation, however, is how the dies were used. A chart of the die marriages for these is quite disorderly, showing no good sequences of minting that we see with genuine coins. It is as if the operation would be started on short notice with dies brought together for a brief production run, then stored off-site so that there'd be no evidence of a counterfeiting operation left where the presses were. A good way to store dies would be to have the obverses at one safe house, and the reverses at another. The two people in charge of storage would not know each other, otherwise, they could start their own operation. A trusted courier would deliver the dies to the press.

We don't know when or why the operation stopped, but we can observe a pause through the die marriages, as there are two sizeable groups that are separate from each other. Perhaps after the first group of dies was used up, another group was made. As for why it ended, there may have been an arrest that shut it down at some point. If so, there should be a record of this in the National Archives somewhere. Probably Fort Worth if this all went down in New Orleans. There's a lot of pure speculation above, it would be cool if some records could be found that provides some actual answers. It would be cooler if my speculation were correct, of course. ;)

Whew. That's a lot of words. I don't post here much, maybe this'll make up for it.
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 Posted 07/22/2016  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe the general idea was to get gamblers to spend real silver dollars in the slot machines, and at the tables, and they would be paid back their wins in the fake coins, turning a nice profit.

Since slot machines were still very illegal in the early 20th c. in NOLA it's not like if you found out you got duped you could just go to the police (who were paid off anyway) and go "Hey, the Mafia-run illegal casino I was doing my illegal gambling in just paid me in fake silver dollars."

It's worth noting that the Black Hand war between Provenzano & Mantranga was peaking in 1890 - when Hennessy got killed. The Lynchings of '91 were spurred by a full-on anti-Italian press assault. This ended up backfiring because the very angry Italians helped the city dump Shakspeare in 1892, replaced as mayor by John Fitzpatrick, the first in a series of Irish mayors who were unable to deal with the issue (or were involved themselves.) The already corrupt police (now actually protected by LCN as a goodwill gesture) were finally able to turn a fully blind eye, and the Silver Age of gambling in NOLA in the early 20th c. was underway. It is probably no coincidence that the counterfeit coins appear to be from this time period.

Mantranga's Black Hand family soon fell by attrition and takeover, orchestrated by the man he chose as his replacement, former Black Hand Sammy Carolla, and the darker side of the city was soon fully under the aegis of LCN.

At the time of King Huey's near-complete takeover of the city in the mid 30s, he was in league with Sammy Carolla & also the Genovese family by way of Frankie Costello. Frankie Costello & Carolla's enforcer, Little Marcello, the "godfather", were running the gambling business, with the Genovese & Costello supplying the slot machines, by now the Mills "chiefs" running on nickels & quarters, meaning that there was little need for counterfeit coining, especially as the rise of the modern banking system following the Depression meant that counterfeiting currency became far more lucrative than counterfeiting coins, and more and more casino transactions were handled in the form of currency, reducing the opportunity to get the fakes to pass into circulation.

The sledgehammer-wielding La Guardia drove Costello's gambling business out of New York down to NOLA, where Carolla would enjoy free reign for years over all of the city's organized crime.
But illegal drugs were starting to take priority as the main profit-maker, and by the 60s most of the gambling action was in Vegas, its profits being used to fund the drug business while JFK & RFK were stepping up the Federal enforcement against more visible organized crime.
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MontCollector's Avatar
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2403 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2016  12:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I get it now...the working theory here is that the Mafia had a hand in producing them(with the help of a disgruntled ex mint employee) and then used their casinos to distribute them to unsuspecting gamblers.


@paralyse-Thanks for the Mafia history. I thought I knew a lot about their dealings. Always found it interesting that they showed hatred to drugs and drug dealers in their neighborhoods while secretly becoming the biggest supplier in town.


Quote:
Whew. That's a lot of words. I don't post here much, maybe this'll make up for it.


Thanks for taking the time to respond Messydesk.
I don't see too many posts from you. Glad you chimed in on this one. I wanted to hear your Mafia theory. When Cascade mentioned it, it peaked my interest and I hoped you would show up to share it.



Valued Member
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149 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2016  01:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add messydesk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Mantranga's Black Hand family soon fell by attrition and takeover, orchestrated by the man he chose as his replacement, former Black Hand Sammy Carolla, and the darker side of the city was soon fully under the aegis of LCN.

You left out Carolla's nickname, which could be quite relevent in this context -- "Silver Dollar Sam."

Thanks for the other info.
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 07/23/2016  10:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've always been fascinated by the dark-side or underworld & also my parents were from New Orleans so I got to visit a lot & learn about some of the "off the books" history.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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