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2016-P Rosie Feeder Finger / Die Scrapes

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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2016  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But we still have the question "What is abrading the die?"

How do the planchets get into the vertically oriented collar? Is the collar stationary? I know on one press type for while they used a rotating collar but thst was on a vertically striking press. (the planchets were loaded into the collar and the collar rotated to bring them between the dies. Then rotate again and the struck coins were removed from the collar.) The collar had four sets of openings and it rotated a quarter turn with each cycle of the press. If the horizontal striking press had something like that then the rotating collar might be causing the abbraisions.
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2016  11:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a good question. Maybe Ken Potter might be able to shed some light on this?
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CoinCents's Avatar
United States
3656 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2016  11:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just found 7 more and I think I have the coins for the stages before this happened. I will get them all laid out tomorrow and add them on to this post.
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CoinCents's Avatar
United States
3656 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  09:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So everyone here pretty much knows that my coin knowledge is very minimal to most of you and I still don't know "the process" in which the dies break down and cause these various issue.

In this roll I did last night I found 2 different spike head (which I made other posts for) 7 more of these and I believe what could be coins representing the earlier die stages with this die. (this is my guessing).

So even if I am completely wrong, I had fun doing it and it is a good learning experience for me. Bare with me on images and if you want some others just let me know.

I am uploading Stage 1, Stage 2 coin 1 & stage 2 coin 2 (not sure which one but most likely coin 2 based on the bottom of the torch) and stage 3. Stage 4 is my original post coin.

Thanks for looking









2016-P-Rosie-Feeder-Finger-/-Die-Scrapes

2016-P-Rosie-Feeder-Finger-/-Die-Scrapes

2016-P-Rosie-Feeder-Finger-/-Die-Scrapes

2016-P-Rosie-Feeder-Finger-/-Die-Scrapes
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Before we start thinking these are from the same die, you might check for matching markers.
The first image looks like there is a die scratch from the TA on STATES also there is another die scratch from the torch to the'O' on OF. One thing to remember about die scratches they fade with time with the dies continued use. Some die scratches near devices will last a lot longer than those in the open fields.
A die crack will continue to lengthen as the die is continued to be used.
A die chip will also enlarge with continued use.
A shorter die crack/a smaller die chip would mean the coin struck when the die was younger, linger/larger as the die is getting older.
Die cracks happen more on older dies than on new dies, but a new die can show a die crack. So to link two coins as coming from the same die, you need 1-3 reference points that are identical in location for them to be from the same die.
If the die crack is on a letter, need to be in that exact location on that letter. Thus saying there is a die crack located on 'C' on CENT, to be from that same die, the crack must fall exactly in that location. They can vary in length, but not in location if it is from that die.
Dies experience the same things exactly the same way while they are used. Thus some events will be the same/common.
So to match up a set of dies, you need a common die marker to be sure they are from the same die. Hope this helps some.
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CoinCents's Avatar
United States
3656 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you coop. I understand exactly what you are saying and I thought I was matching up the die markers - but I need to do a better job of it. I can't usually see the die scratches (because they are not always going to be there & most of time I can't see them, even with my scope, I have forgotten to even look for those).

For the stage 1 coin - I only have 1 of those
The stage 2 coin 1 I have 5 of those
Stage 2 coin 2 I only have 1 of these
Stage 3 I only have 1 coin.
Stage 4 (original coin) I have 9 total of those. So I will go through these first to make sure they all match up and then work backwards I guess.

So I may not be able to do this anyways - but a cool thought if I was able to do so.

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CoinCents's Avatar
United States
3656 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2016  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sent a PM to Mr. Potter today. Maybe he'l he will check it out.
Edited by CoinCents
09/08/2016 9:12 pm
Rest in Peace
Buddy's Avatar
United States
7075 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2016  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll be interested in what he has to say.

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Dustin6's Avatar
United States
3516 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2016  7:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dustin6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Same here. let us know if he gets back, but on the CONECA website, it says please refrain from sending Mr. Potter attributions, because of some personal issues
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CoinCents's Avatar
United States
3656 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2016  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I didn't consider this an attribution - coop just mentioned that Mr. Potter may know how these die abrasions are occurring. He probably won't write back then. Should I send him an email apology?
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2016  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would wait for an answer from him when he has time. It might make it worse with a second email, even if it is an apology. If he is having personal issues, then he is dealing with them first. Id wait for answer from him. We don't want to appear we are pestering him.
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CoinCents's Avatar
United States
3656 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2016  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay coop - I am sorry, I had no idea that emailing him would be inappropriate. I feel horrible about it.




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United States
2738 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2016  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gravity is too slow to move the planchets/coin through the Schuler press, which strikes coins at at rate of 750 per minute. All evidence indicates that it uses a feeder/ejector mechanism. That evidence consists of feeder impressions, "foreign object chain strikes", and "intra-strike damage" on off-center and especially multi-struck coins. Whether these horizontal scratches were caused by a feeder/ejector isn't clear.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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CoinCents's Avatar
United States
3656 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2016  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Mike, I appreciate you taking the time to reply on this post. If only I understood more of process, though I am sure many of the members on CCF will know what you are explaining here.
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CoinCents's Avatar
United States
3656 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2016  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me know if any of you would like to trade one of these dimes for something that you have plenty of. I have 9 total and will be keeping one for myself.

If I need to do this in another part of the forum please let me know.

Thanks
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