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Possible Bidding Issue

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Valued Member

United States
70 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  2:09 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Heynow to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I wanted to get peoples' thoughts on a possible shill bidding issue. I have no proof, so I won't name names.
Here is what happened.
I put in a max proxy bid for a somewhat obscure coin, low 5 figures, at one of the major auction houses. At the live auction, someone bid it up, just high enough so my max bid would win.
Is it a coincidence, or was my max bid used against me; someone with knowledge of it bid just enough so I would pay up to that amount?
Not the end of the world, I paid what the max that I was willing to pay and glad that I won. However, it just seemed funny that just one live person bid, just to my max.
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Without specifics it is difficult to offer any meaningful opinion. You said the coin was "somewhat obscure" which in itself is an opinion that may or may not be shared.

Generally, if you are working with the better known auction houses, such as Great Collections or Heritage as the first two names that come to mind, the chance that you would be shill bid is absolutely zero.

Since you don't mention the firm, that too is difficult to access.

It may also be a matter of bid leveling, as I call it. For instance, if I see a coin I like on Heritage that consistently sells for $211 with the .175 vig, I know a $180 bid will likely clinch the purchase for me. Not always, but quite often. Also, if you are getting close to a JUMP in bidding increments, that can also have an affect. If, for example, you were at $990 for your top bid and at $1000 the bid increment jumps to $100 more per bid, then some will quit bidding when it hits that plateau.

But really, without knowing considerably more than you have offered as far as the details are concerned, I'm not sure how much help can be offered.
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paxbrit's Avatar
United States
992 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paxbrit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I won't opine on the bidding you experienced, but there are several reasons why telephone bidding, or agent bidding, at auctions is done, and not revealing a proxy bid is one of them.

Same reason 'sniping' is popular on ebay.

Still, the rule is what it always is, bid the amount you are willing to pay, and pay it when you win.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You say it is obscure, but a five figure item so it probably isn't THAT obscure. So there could be some other specialist interested in it as well. Unless you can show that the underbidder has connections to the auction house it may just be another specialist that knows what it is worth. Even if they are connected to the auction house, check the terms of sale. Most of them allow the auction house to bid on items for their own account. Usually though withthe more ethical houses they do that by placing a max bid on the item. In that case since you also placed a max bid ahead of time it would have opened at one increment above the underbidder so there would not have been continued bidding against them. It sounds to me that you just got into a bidding battle between your book bid and a floor bidder. The fact that they stopped just below your max bid was either a coincidence or the result of someone else knowing what it was worth. Unless you have more compelling evidence I would just consider it to be normal bidding.
Valued Member
United States
70 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Heynow to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Most of them allow the auction house to bid on items for their own account.


Do they bid for their own account knowing what my bid is? If they do, to me that's an unethical shill bid.
Edited by Heynow
09/06/2016 3:34 pm
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KenKat's Avatar
United States
4085 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenKat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a big reason why I rarely use proxy bidding. You don't know if something shady happened in your case but your instincts tell you there could be something going on here. I will sometimes put in a relatively low ball proxy bid but usually snipe on ebay or Great Collections or use Live Auction on Heritage if I really want something and am willing to pay up a little.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Complex subject, simple answer: Don't bid more than you would feel comfortable paying.

No everyday "average joe" bidder can hope to fully comprehend the sophisticated mechanics of today's multi-format auctions.

Edited by Coinfrog
09/06/2016 5:49 pm
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, putting in your max bid ahead of time is a bit risky. Even though you can't prove anything negative went on, just having your bid "out there" ahead of time leaves a door opened.
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silverwolf's Avatar
Canada
3733 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yes you really will never know,,unless you are at the auction live, even then you have to deal with the supposed phone and internet bids..always discouraging for sure, but as others have stated bid what you are ok with paying.. it is no different than putting an offer in on a house, and they accept, could you have got it for less? Don't let it eat you up..
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