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 Replies: 22 / Views: 4,271 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
As a follow-up to https://goccf.com/t/26913Like Dick reported in this previous thread, this is one of many '79 pennies I discovered with obvious die defects.  I found 100x more defects in '79 than any other years - combined. Something different happened at the Mint in '79 (or '78). A new QA manager was hired? Marc
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1471 Posts |
I think this would be caused by overzealous polishing the dies. Polish doubling.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1106 Posts |
Defects on 1979 cents are a dime a dozen. I have rolls of them and that throat waddle one is very common with that extra bit on the lip. Doubling is also common on the date.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2408 Posts |
Yep. This is consistent with what I have... so what happened in 79 ?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1571 Posts |
The answer is quite simple. We need someone who can make an overlay of the clashed-die positions, and it will show what those "wattles, and boogers are, and what caused them. I stand on my theory that it is the remnants of the maple leaf I started a thread on this very topic, in anmother area,in case anyone wants to persue it.
Dick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
This is very interesting Dick. I did not know of this theory. But what explains the double dates I also found in conjunction with the Queen's die clash on the same coin?. I'd say these errors were caused primarily on a badly adjusted tool. Only an ex-RCM employee could say...
Marc
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1571 Posts |
Marc, that's very true. I have a 1979 with a severe MD, ( Mechanical Doubling), for those who are newbies, and don't know the trerminology, yet.The MD is caused bt a mis-adjusted , or worn die anchor or mount. The lateral movement is dine on the down-stroke, from what is explained in the Charltion's Catalohgue, and it leaves what we refer to as a "shelf, ie "shelf-doubling. The correct name is Machine-doubling. There is another "doubling",that can occur at the same time as the MD. It is "Hub doubling, or "punch-doubling" as they refer to it in CAnada. It is on the hub, and will "leave it's mark on every planchet struck, wheras in the case of the MD it is only like while the machine is operated in the condition where a die is loose, or the ran on which it is mounted is worn, or otherwise not driven "true". The clash happens when no planchet is injected into the chamber, and the hammer, and anvil dies clash, leaving the most prominant details on the opposite die face, due to theslightly rounded face. These marks will be struck into the subseuqent planchets, that enter the chaMBER. NORMALLY, THERE WOULD BE VERY FEW, HOWEVER IT SEEMS THAT THERE WERE VERY MANY, FROM THE REPORTS SO FAR CONCERNING THE ANOmily. ( Please excuse the upper/lower case typing, as well as extra letters, etc, as I am blind, and not a typist, so some boo-boo'sa will occur. I only see them when I look up to proof-read what has been typed.) From thi original post with the "thread", to the poor photos I rushed into the thread, there seems to be a quite long run of coins thru the clashed dies,resulting inmany, many damaged coins. As one member commented, they are not abraided marks, caused by "Over-zealous polishing".There is no such thing as "polish-doubling. That is physically impossible. Sorry, Zonad. The adjacent field shows no effects of any abraision, so that lets that part out. The extent of my example., and the one shown first indicates a lot of coins were minted, before the die)s) were changed out. The fact that both the clash, and the MD were on the same coin, is just coincidence, IMHO. Comments? Opinions welcome! An after thought: If anyone would like to see where the different points of contact are on a US cent, I can post this excellent work, done by Coop, with his premission, ( for which I have already asked, and await his eresponse). I'm sure many of you collect our US cent varieties, and know what it is all abouit, but I am not sure our CAnadian collectors hace the same information for their cents. That is what I have asked for, as well as to ptovide the same info for our cents. I'll post on this asme thread, when I get thre okay. Dick Edited by livingdinasaur
03/12/2008 02:38 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1571 Posts |
This was posted in the wtong forum, by accident. I will place it as "another post", under Marc's title Clashed dies The story of a 1979 cent, or similar. Marc, okay by you? This is your thread....
Dick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Dick, your last post is stunning.
Not only for its content but for everything else that really matters.
Marc
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1571 Posts |
Marc, this is what I was wanting to show:  This will show what is where, and how it got there. This sqame example in 1979, is the goal, so that we can find out what happened in '79/ The overlay will show all, as you can see from the one posted for the US cent. We were going to use the series '68-'78, but the portrait, would not bne correct, and therefor useless. It has to be 1979. In the other years, where there have been no changes, then the same technique will apply. Dick |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Hi Dick, I took this 1979 penny reverse hopefully clean enough for what we need...  Marc |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1571 Posts |
Marc, thaat is a great photo. I'll pull it on the other computer, soo it will be available for the overlay attempt. I need the Portrait in particular, as there were minor changes made prior to, and after 1979, so it is imperative that we use the 1979. I am just getting an idea about how to make an overlay. In fact, I made my first one yesterday, but haven't been ablle to get the second, one, today! It will be a while for me, but there are those who are very adept in this particular endeavor, Coop, is one of them, and I believe Kurt would very likely be able to do one, altho that is not his field of endeavor. Thanks for the pohto. It will be very handy to use for this effort.
Dick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Ok Dick, I will get the portrait as well. I had to work in the yard over the weekend as you know....
Marc
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1571 Posts |
Marc, that will be great! I will try to make an overlay of the two when the portrait is available, and I probably will seek Coop's assistance, or maybe just ask him to do the overlaym ao it will be better, and sooner! I am back to square one, on the overlays., They keep getting worse, so maybe I'll slow down, and let it come naturally, eh?
Dick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Dick, I promise to work on this issue over the weekend! If only I could get my yard work done. Here in phoenix it is spring time big time.
Marc
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
I must thank Dick for giving us an insight on how to explain this particular defect.  Marc |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 4,271 |
Posted 03/11/2008 10:48 pm
