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 Replies: 45 / Views: 5,065 |
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Pillar of the Community
Singapore
631 Posts |
It is indeed disturbing to buy fake coins and even more so when you buy fake coins that are almost indistinguishable from the real things. I recently came into possesion of some high quality fakes that I cannot tell apart from the real ones (assuming my real ones are real in the first place). Seriously thinking about quitting this hobby.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1205 Posts |
Yes it is..can you elaborate please on what you have run into, forgery-wise? World Coins, or, N. American issues? Business Strikes, Proofs, or....with collector boxes, or not?
At the end of the day, for bullion coins, someone smart will make a small hand-held device, similar to the "Bullion Wand" type machine that reads metallic signatures. The one most coin shops buy runs over 700 dollars. 800 with the extra wand, so, a bit much for someone going to a swap meet, pawn shop, or, buying from the neighbor's grandmother's nephew....also, one must measure coins....weigh them, and, use a good loupe for detection. The crooks are getting VERY good, which is why I invested in sending in ALL my raw gold coins, accumulated over the years, to PCGS for "Secure" Label, where each coin is scanned, and, put into their database, among other things..I think it's a great way to protect your investments, and, PCGS guarantee's any of their slabbed coins for authenticity. Lots of FAKE SLABS, with FAKE COINS in them out there now...again, someone who handles a LOT of these should put together a few web pages for us to study and learn the subtle differences.
So, please tell us what it is that is fake...we need to know, to add to the big picture forming.
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Valued Member
United States
408 Posts |
Numister, you have posted something all of us can learn from. Can you please take pictures and show us the coins. That would be very helpful.
Also, I have always believed that, one day, China will destroy this hobby. The amount of fakes coming from there is getting more numerous by the day.
Edited by joeysanders627
10/27/2016 03:56 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Singapore
631 Posts |
Weight is 7.14g, worst thing is that it isn't even a rare coin ! Maybe the only slight giveaway is the face on the right.  Edited by Numister
10/27/2016 02:32 am
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Pillar of the Community
Poland
3201 Posts |
I second this sentiment. Having read the thread regarding the high quality Canadian fakes (making it into 2nd tier TPG slabs) and some articles on the subject which were not so new anyway, I must say that it already makes very little sense for me to continue spending money on coins. First, the quality of fakes has gone up significantly in recent years. They're no longer the I can tell which ones are fake from the way they look even if I know nothing about a particular series type which dominated a few years ago. With time, the amount of high quality fakes will only increase since it seems very little to nothing is being done to prevent such operations in the output countries. Second, not everyone has the money to invest in $500+ detection devices. And who's going to spend that kind of money if they're just starting out? Third, avoiding expensive coins is no longer a viable route, as the relatively common ones can also be fake. Someone also mentioned that obscure series are not safe either. Fourth, the way to distinguish the fakes that was given in one article on the subject was careful analysis of bagmarks which were present on the genuine coin which were then transferred to the copies. Let's say you collected dollar coins. You'll have to know exactly where these marks are on a fake 1879-P dollar, where they are on a 1879-O dollar, and where they are on a 1879-CC dollar. And that's for one year of one denomination only. And that's assuming there was only one host coin. I have not found any info as to whether it is possible to remove the bagmarks which were present on the genuine coin before striking the fakes. If it is, it adds another level of problems - if someone takes the time to do it, the detection method described above is useless. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1699 Posts |
So how did you determine that your fakes are fake. I don't know what to look for on this type of coinage. And I also wouldn't use weight or strike weakness as my only indicators.
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Pillar of the Community
Singapore
631 Posts |
The person that sold me this coin clearly stated it's fake.
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
It is getting frustrating and effecting the hobby. At times I wonder if there should not be a "cultural complaint to the Chinese Authorities..... meaning an approach where some one in Gvt tells the Chinese that such fakes shame China. The Chinese gvt gets really upset with badly behaved, Chinese, tourists and warn their nationals not to shame China.. if only we could get them to have the same approach to fake coins. The legal approach will, IMHO, never work with them.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5029 Posts |
There will always be fakes coin. Being relatively new to the hobby compared to some of the members here, I do worry about picking up fake coin. However, I am selective on where and who I buy raw coins from. However, instead of making me want to quit the hobby, it makes me more determined to learn about the coins I want so I am as knowledgeable as I can be when it comes to detecting a fake.
I do have a question Numister: I am not familiar with these coin types so bear with me. I agree the face on the right does look odd. But could that be due to grease or something during the minting? However, other the face and your mention of the person you bought the coin from said it was fake - is there something that you can see or have found that proves the coin is fake? Could it be the person who sold it to you was mistaken? As you state the coin is not rare.
Edited by scopru
10/27/2016 08:46 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
The 'face' to the right will not be a good diagnostic for this counterfeit- BNB coins of this design are notorious for the face on the right looking like that...
You are absolutely correct that that particular piece is deeply concerning... (if it is in fact a counterfeit)
Edited by jdmern
10/27/2016 08:53 am
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Valued Member
United States
55 Posts |
Other than the seller telling you it is fake, how do you know it is? What does Krause list as the appropriate weight for the coin? Numismaster does not list a weight.
I agree with the above statement that the face on right is not a good diagnostic; a soft strike could easily do that.
Nothing about the coin jumps out at me as being fake...
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
Sending that one to a TPG may end to be pretty fun . ;) In any case, if this is really a fake one . it's scary indeed. Edited by MathieuMa
10/27/2016 09:18 am
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Pillar of the Community
Singapore
631 Posts |
Trust me it is 100% fake.
Recently these particular coin has surfaced in my LCSs, which means the dealers have bought them not realising they are fake.
If a dealer with 30 years experience can't tell, what about us ?!
Can't the US government do something ? Even if it's Trump .... nah maybe not.
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Pillar of the Community
Singapore
631 Posts |
Reminds me of a documentary I saw a while back of a expert Chinese porcelain forger, his fakes were so good he donated them to the
local museum and they grabbed it and wouldn't let go. Even when he told them it was fake they didn't believe him and actually wanted to
pay good money for it.
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Valued Member
Uruguay
217 Posts |
l think that is better collecting circulated coins, instead of XF, UNC or BU. The counterfeiters want to have a profit and is well known that a BU or UNC coin can increase its value despite being a common coin. Further, the patina and general aspect of circulated coin is not easy to artificially accomplish.
Of course,we all like a well-preserved coin, but we should be aware that this is the bait on the hook that counterfeiters could put to us .
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
United States
12269 Posts |
Quote:
Trust me it is 100% fake. Hard to do when you don't provide any diagnostic other than something that could happen on a coin that is weakly struck. Care to provide specifics? Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Replies: 45 / Views: 5,065 |
Posted 10/27/2016 02:17 am
