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Should CCN "Trends" Numbers Be Revised To Better Reflect Market Reality?

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Pillar of the Community

Canada
1461 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  2:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TheCoinHunter to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Poll Question
The current market is now so far off "trends" on most coinage, that isn't it time to bring the trends numbers (This includes the prices on Coinsandcanada) to more realistic levels? The whole idea behind "trends" was to make it more dynamic and a more accurate reflection of that market than what Charlton provided. With most graded coinage selling at 30%-50% trends should we not look for an adjustment? I know many dealers would be against this but the market is what it is.

Poll Choices
 Yes, slowly
 Yes, one time "reset"
 No, leave as is

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coinsarecool's Avatar
165 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  4:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsarecool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would doing this poll change the situation?
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Canadian Trends has always been run by the dealers, so it would be up to them to decide on whether or not the prices should be reduced.

My opinion would be to reduce the prices by 30% right across the board.

That would be a good start.
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thedollarman's Avatar
Canada
4911 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  4:33 pm  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The Canadian Trends has always been run by the dealers


that's why there hasn't been a change...
Feel free to call me Will.
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Paulsz's Avatar
Canada
2187 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paulsz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To be honest, although I have the CCN trends, I just use ebay sold listings to see what people are paying now-a-days. I got a couple of issues of the CCN that where a couple years apart and nothing has changed in the trends so I don't really know how reliable that is. And who knows, maybe if they lower trends, people will pay even less for coins
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Alex A's Avatar
710 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alex A to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I remember this topic was discussed on one of the CCF forums last year. A few people mentioned the group that sets Trends was looking at the situation and planning a revision. This was over a year ago.

Maybe someone can provide us an update on what happened?
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What is really necessary is for the economy to improve in Canada to the point where Canadians actually have some discretionary income. Poor Canadian Coin sales are just a tiny reflection of what is wrong as to the general malaise of the entire economy . You could offer many nice coins at half or less and not increase Canadian Sales one bit. Paying for our big new shiny government , Hydro, Food , and various other issues of day to day life get in the way of the odd 1948 dollar sale.
Sure it is true that most Canadian Dealers are having a difficult time getting anywhere near trends , us included. There are alternatives though. The export market is much better. Things as far as US sales are rolling along quite nicely.
To get back to the question of revamping trends. My vote is to eliminate it altogether and start fresh.
Far better resources to sell coins are already available including ebay SOLD, Auction results Actual sales only. Mike Findlay's Wholesale newsletter ( highly recommended) are just a few.
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AgCoinAu's Avatar
Canada
3049 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgCoinAu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When I just got into this hobby I used the trends as a buying guide...I now know I over paid on some items... (lesson learned) but I would be a lot happier knowing that others getting into this hobby wouldn't make the same mistake as I did.
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heritage sold for TPG, ebay sold for everything.

Anything else is plain laziness in assuming any other guide, including blue and gray sheets, are produced for the collector.

Do the work and check recent real sales.
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Blue and Greysheet have zero to do with Canadian Coins. Heritage Auction sales are usually NGC PCGS graded Canadian which are irrelevant in Relation to TRENDS which are prices for ICCS GRADED coins. If they cross or not is another topic.
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Canada
1442 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2016  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian-varieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I say leave the Trends alone.

You can't use " ebay sold" as there can easily be a 100% difference between a coin started at $1 and the same coin sold as a "buy-it-now".

What would be helpful is for the "Trends" editors to routinely look at the 10 "most overvalued" coins in terms of trends and the 10 "most undervalued" coins in terms of trends

and make adjustments accordingly. Do this every month or couple of months and ask collectors to submit their choices for 10 most overvalued or 10 most undervalued. This would bring the Trends quickly to a more realistic reflection of the market.

As examples, the 1859 1c DP9 No.1 is overvalued. In AU its $1350, yet there are AU coins sitting on ebay for $800, unsold.
Or the 2000P 10c is overvalued. In MS65 Trends is $2200, while a MS67 sits on ebay unsold at $1400.

Undervalued? Try getting a 1859 1c 9/6 in AU50 for Trends of $2800 (an AU58 sold on Heritage for $11,000)



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papeldog's Avatar
Canada
1923 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2016  11:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with Canadian Varieties up grade trends don't eliminate it and add the harder varieties to trends
Examples: 1881 ssn large cent no mention, 1886 DP6, 1893 triple 9, 1859 #4,5.+ the inverted 9 way under valued, 1864 New Brunswick 1 cent E/F no mention plus many other Canadian varieties.
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2016  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There was large Dealer reaction when Greg Macdonald made major revisions in his last edition of his Australian coin price guide " Australian Coins and Banknotes".
As many Australian Dealers use his guide when selling raw coins (Strangely enough NOT when buying them) they hated the new revised valuations.
There has been a downward trend in numismatic values in Australia and his latest edition truthfully reflected that downturn.
If this is the case in Canada then the "Trends" should be revised to reflect the TRUE current valuations
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punman's Avatar
Canada
849 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2016  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add punman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A one time reset would only be a temporary fix. Five years down the road will be the same problem all over again. If it is too difficult to update continually, maybe certain denominations could be update quarterly (and not just the quarters - bad pun!).

I had assumed that Trends would be more current than Charltons since Charltons is only put out yearly, but at least Charltons changes some of their prices each year.
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Canada
1505 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2016  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add purelywasted to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They should at least change the name from "trends", maybe call it "Dreams", "Over Estimate" or "Coin Fiction". The only trend I see, is that it is overvalued by 40%.

I have a hard time believing it is too difficult to update, I keep a list of 940+ coins to complete a circulation set, I will update about 150-200 a year to maintain current market value of my collection. And this is my hobby, they do this for a living. With most of the coins never changing value like 1968-present, the job should be pretty easy. A penny form 2013 5 cent piece, on a good day, should only be valued at less than a dollar, except in very highest grade, this won't change.
Edited by purelywasted
12/15/2016 2:21 pm
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unruhjonny's Avatar
Canada
514 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2016  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add unruhjonny to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
my personal peeve is this;

you go to a coin show, something attracts your attention, and you ask the price...
the dealer then rummages around for their latest CCN to look at trends pricing.

Now, generally when they stat looking for their CCN, I walk.

If they couldn't be interested enough to put a hard price on something, then they don't need my money.

If they really wanted to sell, they would know that trends is generally much too high.
Edited by unruhjonny
12/15/2016 2:42 pm
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