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 Replies: 27 / Views: 2,291 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
I say MS-64. What thinketh thou?   |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Rim abrasions, rub / hairlines noticeable on cheek, in fields, cap, hair, and on reverse - eagle's breast and wing feathers, head and wreath bow ribbon...she's been circulated for a short while as well. AU58 again for this one, obverse slightly worse than the reverse, but that toning is insanely beautiful.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8137 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36844 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
This is the best of the three. AU55 CAC. There are still bagmarks on the cheek and obverse fields. However this one doesn't have deep scratches or other distracting defects. Still see wear in multiple spots on the eagle in reverse although that may be lighting. In my humble opinion, it needs to be cleaner to get to AU58. Toning is beautiful and where the money is rather than the technical grade.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
This is the best of the three. AU55 CAC. There are still bagmarks on the cheek and obverse fields. However this one doesn't have deep scratches or other distracting defects. Still see wear in multiple spots on the eagle in reverse although that may be lighting. In my humble opinion, it needs to be cleaner to get to AU58. Toning is beautiful and where the money is rather than the technical grade. Under 10x magnification, I too believe those to be wear spots. Good job picking those out! As for the bagmarks, it is on par with the MS-64/65 level. Your definition of AU-58 seems to be MS-66/67 with a little bit of wear. Unfortunately, that is not entirely correct. An AU-58 needs to look like an MS (61-70) coin with a liitle bit of wear in terms of 90+% of the luster being present. Excessive bagmarking on a lightly circulated coin (look up a certified MS-60 Morgan to see what I mean in terms of excessive bagmarking) may be downgraded to AU-55. Just so you know, your definition of AU was my definition of AU until I was corrected by this forum. I had originally thought that an AU-5X grade corresponded to an MS-6X grade with a little bit of wear. Then I learned about how luster works. Edited by TypeCoin971793
12/15/2016 11:35 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Still learning. Thanks for being patient with me.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
Still learning. Thanks for being patient with me. I truly hope that I do not come across as being harsh and opinionated. I'm just telling you my grading standards based off of my experience and observations. If I am wrong, someone will come along and correct me. I think the best way to understand an AU grade is that the progression up the scale (from 50 to 58) gets you from an EF-45 to a fully uncirculated coin, with 58 being the closest to MS. If an AU-50 was an MS-60 coin with a little bit of wear, then where would an MS-63 with a lot of wear but less wear than an EF-45 go? That is the purpose of the AU-50/53/55 grades. Edited by TypeCoin971793
12/15/2016 12:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3516 Posts |
I origionally thought 62, but when I looked more. I think it is a slider
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2189 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
TypeCoin, you have been incredibly gracious and helpful throughout. Thanks!
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
I think this is one that really needs an in-hand grade. I'm not certain if the minor areas that appear to be luster breaks are, or are just part of the toning distribution.
Guys (and gals), I don't know who put it into your heads, but bag marks have NOTHING to do with determining the TECHNICAL grade of a circulated coin. The amount of wear is what determines the degree of circulation and thus, it's grade. You can have one coin that has a bunch of bag marks and one that has almost no trace of bag marks, and they are both EF (or XF) 45.
True, one may be considerably more attractive than the other because of that difference in the number of bag marks, but they do NOT change the circulated technical grade.
Only the wear changes the circulated grade. There may be other factors such as rim dings, scratches, graffiti, and cleaning, which are the most common problems, that give a circulated coin a details grade - but NONE of those change the technical grade, either. Take a VF-25 coin and give it a severe rim ding and it becomes a VF details.
Take the same VF-25 coin and give it a couple more little bag marks, and its STILL a VF-25 coin, its just not as attractive.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18696 Posts |
i dont think the coin would make MS64.too many marks on the chin and neck as well as rim issues. when toning is present it needs to have eye appeal and some type of symmetry. in this case symmetry is not present. due to these issues I'm going with MS62
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Although I have tremendous respect for moxking and your experience, I am going to go out on a limb and disagree. The criteria for circulated coins according to PCGS, a market grading trend setter is as follows: Quote:For Circulated coins, there are: 1. The amount of wear. This is by far the most important factor in the grading of circulated coins. 2. Marks and abrasions. Depending on the grade, a certain amount of marks and abrasions are expected with circulated coins. Severe or unusually serious marks "for the grade" can be a negative. The higher the circulated grade, the less severe marks can be before they would effect grade.3. Luster. AU (Almost Uncirculated) coins should have some original luster. For lower grades color and originality have the same effect on grading as luster does for higher grades. The "technical" grade of the coin is the grade of the coin based on the factors above without taking eye appeal into consideration. http://www.PCGS.com/eyeappeal/ According to this interpretation of grading, wear is not the only factor in technical grade. I do not believe that two coins, both with slight wear at high points, one marked up with contact with other coins and another that is completely clean, both merit AU58 equally. Sure it is not wear, but marks affect the technical grade according to PCGS. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
12/15/2016 8:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
2. Marks and abrasions. Depending on the grade, a certain amount of marks and abrasions are expected with circulated coins. Severe or unusually serious marks "for the grade" can be a negative. The higher the circulated grade, the less severe marks can be before they would effect grade. There are no severe or unusually serious marks for the AU-58 to MS-64 grade levels present on any of three Morgans. Edited by TypeCoin971793
12/15/2016 9:05 pm
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Replies: 27 / Views: 2,291 |
Posted 12/15/2016 08:00 am
