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 Replies: 45 / Views: 4,222 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11920 Posts |
https://www.NGCcoin.com/coin-variet...es-vscid-30/According to NGC, there are at least 3 known reverse die varieties for the 1877 philly seated half $. Mainly the documentation revolves around the open/closed berry in the wreath near the eagle's right talon. They don't speak to the rest of the design. I think Wiley-Bugert is the reference for the varieties for this series. Wish I knew whether the eagle heads were different.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
12/17/2016 10:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2125 Posts |
If fake, you can return it and get your money back due to "Item not as described". ebay buyer protection. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11920 Posts |
I hope so bandsdean. In the meantime it is more fun than I expected to try to unravel this mystery. I might have to submit for authentication which would take me out of the 30 day window, and leave me with other avenues of recourse. Good to know there are several layers of protection, even if in the end they prove ineffective. I'll hope for the best, which in my case would be to end up with an authentic coin.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
genuine
harshly polished
not worth the price of admission
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
Please look at the position of the eagle's eye in relation to the start of the beak opening on the OP coin and a genuine example. The difference would give me concern that the OP coin is a counterfeit. Please look at the way the coin was lit. On the OP coin, it was lit from the top. On the PCGS coin, it was lit from the bottom. The difference can create the illusion that the eye is in a different position. You are comparing a high-res picture of an UNC, uncleaned coin to a low-res picture of an AU, polished coin. There will certainly be differences. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11920 Posts |
I received the coin today, and tonight we had our monthly coin club meeting. Some very experienced dealers were in the room and they advised me that the coin hit the trifecta. 1) It was cleaned with a brush placing a lot of hairline scratches on the coin. 2) It was polished to even out the surfaces and devices. That removed most of the hairlines, but some remain visible at 10x. 3) It was then dipped to even out the color of the coin. Because there was still toning in protected places like the separation lines in the stars and inside the letters and numbers, they were sure it was authentic. Counterfeiters do not tone coins to strip then turn around and polish and dip the toning away. I was hoping the coin would be better than the pictures, but it was worse. TypeCoin had it exactly right. On direct light, the surfaces are like mirrors and I can clearly see color in the reflection. There is zero luster. The surfaces are flat and reflective. The folks were a little amazed that there was so much detail remaining on the coin given all that was done to it, and thought it must have been a pretty nice coin to begin with. It will be in my type set until I can upgrade it for better.   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11920 Posts |
I decided to return this coin even though the seller does not accept returns. In my narrative I chose the option that the item was damaged. The coin has been polished which became clear to me when I had it in hand. I just suspected it when I bought it. I also made the argument that the holder in the picture made the claim that the coin was in grade AU, which I relied on (see picture below). It may have been AU, but was damaged when someone polished it. What are your thoughts on my recourse with the seller and with ebay for a return?  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4472 Posts |
ebay will back you on your return request as they almost always side with the buyer. The coin is not as described because of the AU on the holder or damaged.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
If seller refuses return just file with ebay and PayPal, if you used them, and be sure to keep your tracking info. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Correct, and I would advise you to do so. This is not a coin you want to own.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11920 Posts |
Thanks for your advice!
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36905 Posts |
Good move on returning this one. Unless you got this for G-4 money it isn't worth the trouble.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
What was the basis of your return: Damage? Was the "damage" not plainly evident in the images the seller provided? The seller said no returns and sent you the genuine and cleaned coin pictured in the auction.
So what happened? Don't bid on auctions that state no returns and then try to return a coin without a valid reason.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11920 Posts |
Sellers should state that the coin has been polished if that is the indeed the case. That is a damaged coin, with intentionally inflicted damage. Sellers shouldn't sell damaged coins without stating that they are damaged, in a holder that is marked AU. If they do, they should take them back regardless of their return policy. It's a free country - you are entitled to your opinion.
Other merchants happily take returns when they thought they were selling a normal product and realize they sold merchandise that was damaged. I don't know why certain coin sellers feel they are an exception to this normal business practice.
If they knew beforehand that it was damaged and failed to disclose it, then they are crooks.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
12/28/2016 11:18 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4472 Posts |
What is the status on your return? Is the seller giving you any problems?
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Replies: 45 / Views: 4,222 |
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Posted 12/17/2016 10:15 pm
