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 Replies: 32 / Views: 4,082 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
233 Posts |
Quote:
... There is always risk and you need to be proactive in managing it ... Q/ How do you manage the risk of a sudden increase in the population of a given coin of a given grade? Proactively, or otherwise? I am familiar with using publicly-traded futures'n'options to hedge foreign currency positions against exchange rate fluctuations, but this ain't that. Cheers, /s/ ikeyPikey |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
If you are an investor, don't hold it for 20 years. And make sure you have a good plan to sell it for more than you paid for it. Be selective based on a price strategy.
If you are a collector, your hedge is that even if it's worth less, you still love the coin. So buy what you love. Be selective based on a strategy that takes into account your RoE - Return of Enjoyment.
Netnet, be selective based on your objectives.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/06/2017 12:07 am
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Valued Member
Canada
458 Posts |
I do buy what I love to collect not for investing I have a 1859 large cent that I bought for 12.00 and now its worth about 20.00 dollars, this coin has special meaning for me being one of the first coins I bought as a kid I still enjoy looking at it and I never thought of it was bought as a investment.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
Quote:
I have a 1859 large cent that I bought for 12.00 and now its worth about 20.00 dollars
I wasn't aware that the mint made large cents in 1859.  I would love to have a genuine 1859 large cent.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/06/2017 01:03 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
Just noticed you are in Canada and apparently Canada did mint large cents in 1859.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Valued Member
 United States
321 Posts |
Quote:
I'm wasn't aware that the mint made large cents in 1859.
I would love to have a genuine 1859 large cent. Canada. |
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Valued Member
United States
408 Posts |
Grades are subjective. Look at how many people here grade coins differently when they are asked to in this forum. Yes, they are usually in the same range, but the grades vary. I believe in buying coins based, not only on grade, but on eye appeal as well.
To this day, nobody can truly tell the difference between a MS70 to MS69 or a MS66 to a MS65. It is all based on human opinion and that can vary. To me, it is just a moneymaking racket.
So what is the purpose of a slab when it comes to me? It is to verify that I am buying an authentic coin and that it is within a certain condition. That is all. Unfortunately, that will all come to an end when the Chinese learn how to really copy PCGS or NGC slabs. It is only a matter of time.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2023 Posts |
Many of the 66s and 67s that I come across on ebay are stunning, but some are not ("beautiful toning" is usually anything but) and all are outside my price range. I'm much happier than a 62 or 63 that I can afford and which has fabulous eye appeal. For me, that means sharp and white -- minimal scuffs and scratches, and reflects light reasonably smoothly. If a 65 with those same qualities fits my budget, all the better. 61 just feels low. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Any time you see great collections sold where the prices are significantly better than the initial costs those groups were put together by collectors, not investors.
I've been in enough coin shops enough times to see how reliable dealers respond to coins presented for sale. The EF-45 1909-S VDB in a collection versus the same coin brought in by an "investor" in MS-66 Red.
The 45 will be bought and probably sold the same day (or within an hour) while the 66 won't change hands at all.
The collector learns and profits from that knowledge.
The investor trusts someone else to know what they are suggesting and very few are comfortable with the years of experience necessary to gain that knowledge.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
I see the vast majority of collectors liquidating their collection for a fraction of what they think it is worth.
The fact is that the public does not appreciate the depths at which collectors understand their collection, and the public's taste drifts from what the collector likes over time. It is rare that a collector chases every trend to satisfy demand.
Investors will do careful analysis to understand what buyers want, not what the investor likes. David Bowers understands that and has conducted his business according to this principle according to everything I have read. That's why Bowers will recommend you buy the highest greade you can afford.
The data unmistakeably shows that the high end of the market MS66-69 has appreciated much more than mundane collector grades.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts |
Quote:
Last night I was looking at 1969 MS67RD memorial lincoln cents. The prices ranged from $264 to $1,599 WITHIN that same grade.
The MS66RD version of that coin is $10.
Is it worth it to look for a nicer 1969 lincoln in MS67RD slab?
Yes.
Would I consider buying the MS66RD which is super nice for $10?
No.
Not sure what your point is here. You say it is worth to look for nicer coins in 67RD, but won't consider looking at 66RD? You'd be better off looking at 20 66RDs for $200 and seeing if you any of them would upgrade rather than spending $3000 on 10 67RDs to see if any of them would 68 or sell for $2000. Further, there is virtually no true market for this sort of high grade modern crap. Collectors will buy the $10 coin. Dealers will send in a roll of modern 1969 cents to try to sell one of the perfect ones to someone that will pay $1000 for a manufactured rarity. The only reason these have such low pop reports is that no one cares to certify them. The value of these manufactured rarities that the bulk of the collecting market has no interest in and is supported by dealer selling to investors is by no means secure. Collectors have always done better buying truly rare coins. Edited by Andrew99
01/06/2017 4:35 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
Quote:
Further, there is virtually no true market for this sort of high grade modern crap. The market is the lincoln registry set collectors. There is no market for anything but the best grades. Not looking for a 66rd squeaker into the next grade. Looking for the best 67rd available that has a shot at 68rd. That's where the premium is. And no, I'm not going to hold it for 20 years when I get the 68rd. I would flip it as soon as possible to the registry collector who stands to jump a spot by acquiring the coin. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/06/2017 9:29 pm
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CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts |
Registry sets are a fairly new thing in the scheme of things. The market for MS-67 and better common date Lincolns is very thin. I consider this a manufactured market, as thin as vapor.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11904 Posts |
I wouldn't assume everyone buys to hold for 20 years.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I do my Registry set for fun, and have no illusions of ever having the best or even being close to the best, and certainly not as investments. That being said, I simply can't get behind the absurd prices for top pop moderns post-1964, as a collector or as an investor. If PCGS and NGC were to go out of business 10 years from now, where would those people who spent $1000 on a 5 year old coin with a hundreds-of-millions mintage be? Collectors wouldn't pay an extra $990 for a grade point, and investors wouldn't dump money into something with no future.
On top of that, the idea of tying up a bunch of money in coins and upgrade submissions and then hoping that if I get lucky some random registry set collector will actually have the money to buy my coin -- that is frivolity and wishful thinking and the sort of thing I wouldn't do even if I were filthy rich and had not a care in the world about the prices.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Replies: 32 / Views: 4,082 |
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Posted 01/06/2017 12:02 am
