Opinion: Provenance & Pedigree - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 1,590
DrDarryl Valued Member United States 434 Posts	Posted 01/29/2017 9:14 pm I documented my opinion (at my blog at the American Numismatic Association website) about the definition of provenance and pedigree as it applies to the field of numismatics. https://www.money.org/collector/drd...-to-pedigree Pedigree is the norm in US numismatics. Provenance is not. For provenance, the primary reason it is not used is the lost of the initial link from the US Mint to an individual. The in-person release ceremony medals/coins is an important area that collectors and TPGs are NOT proactive in establishing. After you read my ANA blog. Further discussion about Example 2 POTUS sGm (those not familiar with POTUS sGm http://www.potus-sgm.com/) is below: I can provide a full document trail for the entire title chain linkage (provenance) from: 1. Bureau of the Mint to... 2. President Eisenhower to ... 3. George C. Allen (President Eisenhower's friend) to ... 4. Mary Allen (wife of George C. Allen) to ... 5. (name removed for privacy) (sister of Mary Allen) to ... 6. (name removed for privacy) (son of Mary Allen's sister) to... 7. (name removed for privacy) (Owner 1) to ... 8. DrDarryl (Owner 2) Number 1 and number 2 link can be seen at time 1:20 in this video (Bureau of the Mint-to-POTUS "provenance memo"). lPegmQ-jox8 What price would you pay for a US coin/medal that has a full title linkage (provenance) in which your name can now be added? Report this Post to the Staff

jbuck Moderator United States 188213 Posts	Posted 01/30/2017 3:46 pm Very interesting. I have no doubt it adds value, especially as added historical value. Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
TroyWhite Valued Member United States 112 Posts	Posted 01/30/2017 9:53 pm I am not sure it adds as much value as a one of a kind item such as a painting. Any item that multiples were made of would require a leap of faith on the part of the buyer. Report this Post to the Staff
TypeCoin971793 Pillar of the Community United States 6370 Posts	Posted 01/30/2017 10:58 pm In ancient coins, provenance adds further assurance of authenticity. Report this Post to the Staff
TroyWhite Valued Member United States 112 Posts	Posted 01/30/2017 11:42 pm How does one establish provenance for an ancient coin? How can one be sure it is the same coin through the ages? Report this Post to the Staff
DrDarryl Valued Member United States 434 Posts	Posted 01/31/2017 05:26 am Here is a recent example added to my collection. I purchased a Gomez-C2-05 Eisenhower POTUS sGm (reverse is June 1960, 38.1 mm diameter)from a west coast collector. This collector speculated that it was owned by a US Government secret agent due to a note/sticker on the medal's holder. I never saw the holder (only the medal through images). After I receiving the medal and its holder I started to do some investigation. The note/sticker indicated the following: "Purchased by J.L. from Rufus Youngblood Secret Serv. Agent who threw himself in front of Johnson at Kennedy Assasination (sic)" A line is drawn below the above text. "Ike Presented to R.Y." The only J.L. I know who deals with Presidental medals, coins, and tokens is Joseph Levine from Presidential Coin & Antique Company in Virginia. I contacted Joseph Levine via email. I received a reply email confirming that the note is true. He purchased the medal directly from Rufus Youngblood. He also purchased several other medals from him. I now own a medal with a partial provenance (incomplete chain of ownership link), but with a outstanding pedigree. Provenance 1. Bureau of the Mint to President Eisenhower 2. President Eisenhower to Rufus Youngblood 3. Rufus Youngblood to Joseph Levine 4. Joseph Levine to Owner 1 5. Owner 1 to Owner X 6. Multiple owners ? 7. West Coast Owner to DrDarryl Pedigree 1. Medal awarded from President Eisenhower to Rufus Youngblood (while he served on the White House security detail). Lastly, Rufus Youngblood wrote a book (I recently order a copy to continue my research). Here is an excerpt. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Whit...tem%2065.pdf Report this Post to the Staff
TroyWhite Valued Member United States 112 Posts	Posted 01/31/2017 08:14 am That is very impressive. Now if you ever go to sell the medal include the sticker. Print and include the email from R.L. and perhaps purchase and include the book by Mr. Youngblood. This may serve to open up the market to history buffs in addition to coin collectors. (even though many of us are both) I agree there is value added and if I wanted that medal before, I want it more now! Report this Post to the Staff
oriole Pillar of the Community Canada 5239 Posts	Posted 01/31/2017 08:29 am This is all quite interesting, but how would one establish the added value? As it is often a one of a kind item, there can't be any catalogue or formula to establish value. It depends on how keen the historians/ fans of the celebrity are. Perhaps you could get some idea by establishing the kinds of prices Eisenhower memorabilia are sold for. Report this Post to the Staff
TroyWhite Valued Member United States 112 Posts	Posted 01/31/2017 12:07 pm Yes, I agree "you could get some idea by establishing the kinds of prices Eisenhower memorabilia are sold for." I would then use an auction format sale, with a reserve to see what the market will pay... Report this Post to the Staff
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